Cheshire Police are an incompetent bunch of useless bastards

[GossIsAGit]

After Sally Clark

They should have remembered that If a doctor of medicine tells you that a coincidence is so unlikely it must mean a woman has been killing babies then maybe you should consult a statistician and actually listen.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/oct/10/lucy-letby-police-cps-handling-case-raises-new-concerns-about-convictions?CMP=ShareiOSAppOther

Not only Cheshire

I really hope there is a retrial

I suppose it’s unrealistic to hope they just quash all the convictions and without Dewi Evans they don’t have enough evidence for a retrial.
The thought of a retrial is actually a bit horrendous.

I agree but I think it’s so serious that it’s in the public interest for a retrial as the correct evidence needs to be heard

I think where Dewi Evans has changed his mind on the cause of death, you certainly get to a position where:

there is no evidence upon which, if the evidence adduced were accepted, a reasonable jury, properly directed, could convict

There’s going to have to be a retrial at some point - every time something else comes out it throws the whole system into doubt

Just a bit of a bump while the poll is still open.
I wish Judith Moritz would stop saying Lucy Letby is an enigma. The enigma is rather easily solved.

I agree. It's shocking that the main 'evidence' was statistics, and they sought to build a case around that. There is no proof of Letby actually harming a baby, is there?

Agreed. The way this case has been handled is abysmal and terrifying.

I used to think this, then listened to the accounts of the babies families and there accounts are shocking, some of the parents are Drs and other health professionals themselves so understand the evidence and what its like to work in a hospital. They are under no doubt LL is guilty.

For anybody else who is still in doubt listen to the double jeopardy podcast episodes on LL.

Forensically this case is a shitshow, and that is the root cause of the families current distress. You can't convict people on gut feelings, retrospective analysis of behaviour years down the line and character assassination. This case needs to be re-examined and Dewi Evans should join Roy Meadows in the hall of expert witness shame.

I listened. Tim Owen seemed wilfully ignorant.
The whole investigation was based on the idea coming from medical doctors that ‘this can’t be a coincidence’.
The deaths were not unexpected at the time. If they had been, the coroner would have been informed.
The medical evidence that overturned the post mortems during the trial was unreliable.
Not impressed at all.

The deaths were unexpected, some of the babies were doing really well before collapsing. The Drs still felt there was an explanation for the early incidents.

The deaths were not unexpected. If they had been, the coroner would have been informed.

The coroner is only informed if the Dr cannot give a reason or dralth. At the time they could.

Did you see the Addenbrokes neonatologist on the recent Channel 5 documentary saying he was shocked that babies this vulnerable were only getting twice weekly ward rounds, he thought it should be 3 times a day?
I don’t know what ‘unexpected’ would even mean in a situation where babies are being so under monitored. The possibility of something important being missed would seem very, very high.

That’s true @TheCountessofFitzdotterel. if you take your eye off the ball, it might hit you in the face. ‘It was unexpected’ would then be a poor explanation.

I agree LL did not get a fair defence, this is probably why she has changed legal teams.

listening to the trial about the managers handling and management of the hospital it is very worrying.

because of other reasons I still feel LL is guilty, the hospital can still be managed inadequately and LL be guilty.

For someone who is apparently innocent she did a lot of lying!

Lied about being able to see that child I was pale in a dark room.

Lied about baby Es mum finding her with baby E when baby E was bleeding. E's mum had evidence of a phone call to prove the time it happened.

Filed a made up datix report about a bung being missing as it could be a cause of air embolism, so would draw suspicion away from her.

Lied on another datix saying they had lost IV access to a child (O I think) to make the hospital look incompetent. The doctor that was there at the time said it wasn't the case!

Lied about being arrested and dragged out of the house in her pyjamas (or nightie) when there was video footage of her wearing a tracksuit!

For someone who is apparently innocent she did a lot of lying!
Lied about being able to see that child I was pale in a dark room.
She could spot the warning signs!
Lied about baby Es mum finding her with baby E when baby E was bleeding. E's mum had evidence of a phone call to prove the time it happened.
According to the doctor’s datix, the baby still had good colour approximately forty minutes after the mother left. Lucy Letby wasn’t watching him bleed to death.
Filed a made up datix report about a bung being missing as it could be a cause of air embolism, so would draw suspicion away from her.
This event has been corroborated during the Thirlwall enquiry. A doctor did leave a bung off.
Lied on another datix saying they had lost IV access to a child (O I think) to make the hospital look incompetent. The doctor that was there at the time said it wasn't the case!
From the Thirlwall enquiry, it seems as though if they didn’t lose IV access, they very much struggled to maintain it.
Lied about being arrested and dragged out of the house in her pyjamas (or nightie) when there was video footage of her wearing a tracksuit!
This is interesting because she actually said a nightie and tracksuit bottoms whereupon the prosecution barrister immediately accused her of lying.

How could she spot the warning signs in a dark room?

I never said Letby watched baby E bleed to death. I said Letby lied about the time baby E's mother came to visit baby E.

I have no idea about the bung at the Thirlwall Inquiry and Google wasn't very helpful.

What you've said about the datix about baby O doesn't contradict what I've said.

She was definitely wearing a tracksuit (there is video of it online) at her arrest. Maybe she got changed out of her nightie but her testimony didn't make it sound like that.

This case unsettles me a lot. I feel like we're missing so much information (or maybe I am!) about any other possible explanations for such a rise in deaths. Have any other hospitals ever had such rises? Is such a rise completely unheard of? I've so many questions. It seems it's all been really poorly handled. Heartbreaking for all of the families involved, I can't imagine how horrific it must be to have all this dragged out after already experiencing such an awful loss

Have any other hospitals ever had such rises?

Yes, it’s fairly normal. This hospital wasn’t even the biggest rise that year.

And of course the Countess of Chester had a similar rise on the maternity ward at exactly the same time as neonatal.

She was definitely wearing a tracksuit (there is video of it online) at her arrest. Maybe she got changed out of her nightie but her testimony didn't make it sound like that.

Why can’t she have put on the tracksuit top over her nightie?

It was all seven or eight years earlier.

Some of this just depends whether you believe LL or the prosecution.
Nobody claimed there was anything odd at the time about LL’s observation of Child I.

It wasn’t disputed that a bung was off and the relevant doctor doesn’t seem to have denied leaving it off.

LL may have been mistaken about losing IV access or Dr Brearey may have lied. He certainly has form for lying.

On Child E, it was a mistake from LL (8 years later) to say the mother hadn’t visited when she had at 9 o’ clock but given the doctor arrived at 9.40 and the baby was stable, not evidence of anything suspicious.

On the track suit, I just find it annoying that the prosecution claim that Lucy Letby said she’d been dragged out of the house in her nightie seems to have been reported uncritically. She clearly said tracksuit bottoms over a nightie.