Am I out of practice or was this a weird discussion with manager?

[pensandpapwrs]

I’ve been back at work just under six months after Mat leave, my daughter is 18 months. I was told my work wasn’t perfect when I came back as I was missing small things (work in a professional role) but I was steadily improving as the months had gone on. I was asked how I felt about things etc. I was told of the direction of the company and that manager was looking forward to us all embarking on this next phase of growth together.

So that was all ok. So I thought. I was then told it would be a good idea to re address the balance of my home and work life as it’s probably too much tipped into the home life at the moment. I have no idea what that meant, I leave to do nursery pick up but I’ve been told (by this manager) that that is fine. I also am on target. I just felt it was a weird thing to say, like how is the balance wrong and how can I NOT collect my child or be there for the home stuff? I was also told I need to build on being more robust so they can send more work to me steadily. I had no idea I wasn’t robust?!

I came out of the meeting feeling totally mixed messages. Am I reading into this too much?

Please don’t agonise over it or try to guess - you need to ask for another meeting and ask to clarify. Email Hi boss I really want to ensure I am performing correctly. You told me I need to have more focus on work and I’m not robust enough. I’d like to address this and ensure I am meeting expectations but I’m unclear what specifically I should be doing differently. Can we meet again to clarify what I need to do?

Sorry pressed post too soon. Anyway there is an expression in the law about somebody being a safe pair of hands. These are people who are trusted to get on with things without fuss and to deliver. They may or may not be star performers. Somebody who looks rushed and is constantly asking colleagues to check about things does not look like a safe pair of hands. I imagine other professional jobs have something similar.

Work on those two aspects. Slow down the rushing in the office and stop and force yourself to listen carefully. Walk at a moderate pace and try not to be seen trailing scruffy looking files, papers etc. Keep your desk looking like an advertisement for office effiency. Do any checking in private - keeping good notes about procedures you're not clear about, using templates etc. Make sure you are adequately groomed - nothing excessive, clean hair, a touch of makeup, wearing something that fits.

I think you have to address perceptions. I never mentioned my first child much at work and my boss confessed he'd totally forgotten about him when he proposed some week long residential course when the baby was a few months old. (I went back to work fulltime six weeks after a c-section.)

Start documenting everything. This feels like the beginning of discrimination

I would ask for specific, very recent (within the last month) examples of where your performance has fallen short and what the desired performance level would look like. What would a "robust", fully up to speed employee in your role have done differently? If there aren't useful examples or it's still unclear, ask your manager to jot down any future cases like this and discuss them with you as soon as it's convenient - maybe ask for a weekly or fortnightly check-in? Make it clear that you've heard the feedback, are committed to acting on it, and need more clarity on the details as well as ongoing constructive feedback to make sure you're progressing appropriately.

this is not, not, not Constructive dismissal and never will be under the circumstances described, so do let's give @pensandpapwrs proper advice! If there are performance concerns, the employer is doing exactly what they are duty bound to do, give their employee fair opportunity to improve on specific aspects of performance that need attention.

@pensandpapwrs do please keep relevant notes as suggested upthread, and for every piece of feedback given, make sure you address it and show what steps have you taken to improve. Describe them in your notes so you don't forget. Talk about it in your 1;1 meetings with your manager, to show it's at the forefront of your mind. Be proactive and receptive and evidence that in your discussions.

you'll feel like you're under the spotlight, as soon as it's clear you've got thing on track, that feeling will diminish and they'll have confidence in you.

I think it sounds like you’re doing a good job and they don’t want to lose you to maternity leave again and are mindful that you’re coming up to the time where a lot of people would have a second child. They’re doing a weird coded thing.

Oh absolutely this... do not dwell on this without actual clarification

That's as maybe but it's no ones business if the OP is considering another baby, jesus, my colleagues have been MIA for years between maternity & career breaks.. it's lawful, "they don't want to lose you to maternity" we have finite years

You may need to fake this interest in your career, or consider whether this is the sort of environment where you move up or out.

I’m sorry this has left you feeling stressed. I’ve managed people/teams for decades and this is poor employment practice and could even leave them open to a sex discrimination claim. Sounds like your manager may not be very familiar with employment law.

Review meetings are part of a formal performance management process and, as such, should be documented. So, the first thing is to ask for a note of the meeting and all future review meetings. If the fact you need to address work-life balance and be more robust is in the note, then you should ask for examples in writing, e.g. by email, of how this has affected your performance. Also, be careful what you say in these meetings (or generally to your manager) as that can also be documented (even if not shared with you) and cited against you later. See review meetings as an interview, where it may not be the greatest idea to ‘chat’ about any struggles you find with the job if they’re a more judgemental, ruthless employer. If they won’t/don’t give you a note of review meetings, make your own and share it with them for confirmation they agree it’s an accurate record.

In terms of sex discrimination, do any men do your job or similar ones at the same grade? Do they have children and do they have do pick ups? If you don’t know them that well, start paying attention to this and casually chatting to them, if poss, to try to find out and, if you get to know them enough, casually ask whether they’ve had work-life balance mentioned.

Women should be supported when they return from maternity leave, as should all staff when they return from a long period of leave. I strongly advise you to join a union. It doesn’t cost much, your employer need never know and you’ll have advice and representation if things get worse (and be supporting other women in similar situations). Also, read up on your rights and what’s expected of employers. This may be a good starting point: www.workingfamilies.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Return-to-work-employers-WF-NCT.pdf.

I know you may not want to move job right now. But I’d start to keep an eye out and maybe apply for the odd thing to keep in practice. They don’t sound the greatest employer. Or maybe your manager isn’t great. Are they a man or a woman and do they have kids? As an employee, your employer is just as much on trial with you as they are with them. They shouldn’t be making you feel anxious or unsupported when returning from having a baby if you’re meeting all your objectives (which you should also document). You should expect better. Equally, I wouldn’t worry too much. It’s probably throw away comments from a bit of an a-hole.

I totally agree this sounds concerning and you need to be in cover your ass mods. Ask for a follow up meeting where you say I’ve had some really mixed messages- in our meeting last week it was clear that there are some things you’d like me to improve, but even after that discussion I have no idea what specifically. So on the three points of being more robust, of getting more work done, and my work home balance, I need you to give me some clear direction. I’m meeting all my targets and I do not know what else it is you want- i want to understand but you have to tell me.

make the sod explain you need to over achieve against your targets. Make them explain your agreed work hours aren’t enough. And if they won’t say that, put it in writing they couldn’t give you any concrete points. You’re protecting yourself here.

and email them notes after.

Sounds like you have a terrible manager who cannot communicate clearly and an unsupportive work environment. I’ve just seen you feel anxious about switching jobs but you may find a much more supportive and flexible workplace. Unless your entire industry is like this? Otherwise I agree with pp, cover yourself, ask for clarifications and in writing if possible. Fake the corporate careerist thing if you have to for the next six months to get them off your back. I’m at exactly the same stage as you in returning to Mat leave, it’s hard, my baby is not a big sleeper. Luckily my boss is totally understanding and supportive. As long as my work gets done that’s all that matters. It seems like they’re wanting more from you than meeting your targets but not telling you what that is?

@unlikelychump

Many of the things you say suggest that you have been hit really hard by your experience of having a baby/maternity.ive never heard of anyone feeling out of practice or still getting up to speed 6 months after returning to a job (or indeed starting one)

Really? You've never heard of that? People do indeed have pregnancies, births, recoveries and children that vary in their demands and difficulties. Perhaps you only hang out with superwomen. I really do not think this is that strange.

OP, is this a legal environment that you work in?

This is the classic parent like you have no job and work like you have no kids. No one would fucking say that to a man. I'd ask for a meeting and clarify.

Yes, that was my thought too. They want to erase your family life and have 100% of you working all the hours.
In the past, I had my manager tell me to get a full time Nanny “so that I didn’t need to bother going home to see the children”. I’d like to think that sort of comment wouldn’t be made nowdays, but my feeling was that was what your manager wanted to say to you, OP.

@RoseMarigoldViolet so shit, isn't it? No one would dare to say that to a man 😕

Yes, shit!

@RoseMarigoldViolet yes that came up about ‘finding good childcare.’

I have good childcare. It covers all my hours of work.

I don't know what you do but the fact you say you have to work evenings, weekends, days off and before nursery sounds awful. I presume you already work full time.
It does sound like they are trying to make excuses now you have a child.
You have a young toddler which is very demanding, you need to watch you don't burn yourself out.
Do you actually get to relax and spend time together.

I feel for you, OP. It is hard returning to work in a professional environment where they expect everything out of you. I remember this and it was so hard. So exhausting.

OP, people on Mumsnet often jump to 'your days are numbered' when it's actually a manager doing normal performance management. Contrary to popular believe, most employers would prefer that employees who aren't performing start performing, rather than wanting to go through the long process of hiring someone new. Obviously sometimes it's personal, and often the formal PIP process only starts once the employer has decided there is no way forwards and is just going through the motions.

I think it is more likely that what is happening is this (1) your manager has been holding back on either the volume of work you're being given, or the strategic value/complexity of that work as you go through the return period, but they now consider that grace period is up and if you want to continue on your former trajectory you need to up your game, and (2) your manager still has some concerns about your performance and wants you to fix them.

It is very common for managers to do (1) when women return from maternity leave and they think they're doing the woman a favour. Appreciate you haven't asked for it, and it may not even be obvious to you. I recommend you make it clear to your manager that you don't want to be treated differently because you have a child and that you are happy to take on strategic work and ask what you need to do for him to be confident you are able to take on more strategic work (don't say more work if you're already hitting targets). There was a suggestion you're a lawyer - if that's the case focus on what they need to have confidence you can manage bigger client relationships/run bigger matters. If you want to continue to progress (you don't have to want to!), try to objectively think about whether you are falling behind others at a similar level in terms of what you do, not just how much you do. Eg you may be billing the same hours as Bob, but is Bob responsible for finalizing the DD report, sending it out and managing client questions whereas for your matters the partner is far more involved and you are really doing the basics not the strategy. Effectively, do you think you've been out on the 'mummy track' and don't want to be.

For (2), I'd ask very specifically what areas your manager thinks you need to work on. Then go from there.

Don't email copying HR in. It's would be a ridiculous over reaction and will not make you look good. I wouldn't email at all at this stage. I would ask for another meeting.

If at the next meeting your manager won't provide clarity, and continues to make statements that indicate that their issue is you know having a child, not anything concrete, then consider moving onto email so you have a record. You may end up needing to go to HR, but that is the nuclear option and I would never do it unless I felt I had no other option.

It's all utter bollocks. They have told you this nonsense because they want to feel like they are keeping you in check. It's all about the feeling of power. 99% of the time all you have to do is nod and agree and make the other person feel like they have educated you and it will all be forgotten. If you absolutely want to make it go away, just respond in a couple of weeks in person by giving them 3 or 4 changes you've made 'on reflection'. None of these have to be real or actual changes, you just need to make it sound like you made adjustments to your life. Office life is full of dickkheads thinking they're doing something important for the world.

For reference, I used to be on the Board of Directors for an insurance company until one day had an epiphany that my life was meaningless.

You’ve already had some good advice on this thread. I would add, be careful about how you talk about yourself.

You mentioned going into the meeting and talking about the challenges or difficulties of balancing work with having a toddler. Over the years I have noticed that it never really pays to self-deprecate, highlight challenges or talk negatively about yourself in the workplace. A friendly or collegiate atmosphere might seem to encourage the unburdening of troubles or concerns, but it does change how others perceive you.

On the ‘double checking’, I can see that colleagues and seniors might find that irritating. It also projects uncertainty. Do you carry a notebook to make a record of instructions that might come about from conversations and meetings? For the last ten years I have kept an A5 notebook as a running record of meetings, projects, ideas and task lists. I did it in the workplace and do it now as a freelancer. It’s simple with no fancy ‘system’, but I always date and title each item.

The post from FlickeringGreenFlame upthread is probably good advice.

@melonwalruswrestling yes I agree as I don’t think it was really about performance of the work itself… I did specifically ask is there an issue here (I am an anxious over thinker at the best of times). The response was clear - no, that would be a very different conversation and if anything my work was getting on track since mat leave and I was ready for more work in their opinion. So I don’t think it is performance related in that sense.

However, this comment about being robust and then a comment about my home life… it was just so weird. I’ve literally never spoken about dd more than the minimum necessary! (Not that I think I should have to not talk about her, but the fact is I don’t). I have literally never not finished work and I would say at least 50% of the time I am sending emails before or after work hours… I.e. if something landed at 5pm I would have it done by the deadline or response that evening if needed etc.

What is really really pissing me off is that I haven’t ‘prioritised’ home or work. I’ve simply been managing it all and it’s been hard but I’ve done it all. I haven’t complained about it or even spoken about anything being difficult etc. I’ve just done it. So what’s the fucking problem