Am I out of practice or was this a weird discussion with manager?

[pensandpapwrs]

I’ve been back at work just under six months after Mat leave, my daughter is 18 months. I was told my work wasn’t perfect when I came back as I was missing small things (work in a professional role) but I was steadily improving as the months had gone on. I was asked how I felt about things etc. I was told of the direction of the company and that manager was looking forward to us all embarking on this next phase of growth together.

So that was all ok. So I thought. I was then told it would be a good idea to re address the balance of my home and work life as it’s probably too much tipped into the home life at the moment. I have no idea what that meant, I leave to do nursery pick up but I’ve been told (by this manager) that that is fine. I also am on target. I just felt it was a weird thing to say, like how is the balance wrong and how can I NOT collect my child or be there for the home stuff? I was also told I need to build on being more robust so they can send more work to me steadily. I had no idea I wasn’t robust?!

I came out of the meeting feeling totally mixed messages. Am I reading into this too much?

@ThinWomansBrain yes that’s right. I have met my target at half financial year. I d all work allocated and even on my day off. It was strange as I was told how much effort I was putting in to do a good job, only a day before the meeting?!

I am worried now though if posters think they’re trying to get rid of me!

Ask for examples as you’d like to be clear on where and how to improve

I’m a manager too. I think your manager seems concerned about poor performance. I’m not saying they’re trying to get rid of you - it all seems like it is in early stages. It seems like they’re trying to informally tackle the problem and give you the opportunity to improve. They’re informing you of an issue. They’re trying to give you feedback and nip whatever in the bud. Nothing may come of this.

generally speaking if informal action doesn’t work, they could then progress to formally tackling the problem in future. Again, not saying that is their intention.

It seems like your perspective on things is different to theirs. How much do you have in writing eg are your childcare commitments authorised, are they listed as temporary or subject to review? Is it time for it to be reviewed? What is your work output compared to others/previous to your maternity leave? Is the quality there? Are they aware of your circumstances/support you may need? It sounds like they think you’re struggling.

OP, they're getting their ducks in a row to manage you out. The signs are all there. Telling you about your weaknesses (which you need to document and refute) and also sharing about a new direction of the company. When they notice things they will come back to this meeting eg "you r left twice this week early because DD was ill. We understand that these things happen but as we said in the previous meeting this isn't the first time and it's a pattern". If you're up for a fight dig your heels in and sting them for constructive dismissal. If you're not, leave.

I don’t agree with the other posters on here. I don’t think you should copy HR into an email. They’re not going to be concerned with the manager having this discussion with you, in fact it may be considered good practice that they have taken an informal approach with you first. Your manager is not going to get in trouble. However your manager may or may not have approached HR about you already. If they have, HR are likely to have given your manager advice and will be in support of them. If not, you’re just giving your manager an opportunity to discuss you with HR who will likely support your manager. There doesn’t seem to be a net benefit for you.

The person you need to contact is a union representative.

@waitingforthebus what do you mean by “manage out”? I feel like this term has multiple meanings and is misunderstood.

To manage someone out may not be constructive dismissal, in my view, though you mention that in your post. Managing out can simply be following rules/policies. It’s generally a long, drawn out approach. It can take months or years to be able to safely dismiss someone and make sure you’ve covered your back.

I think constructive dismissal is more serious as that’s essentially bullying someone into resigning so you don’t have to go through the hassle of managing someone out.

I would have another chat. Say you've 'reflected' on the feedback and would appreciate some examples so you can understand it further.

@Waiting9 thanks. I think my OP is misleading as people have latched into this concept of nursery pick up which is absolutely not the issue here at all. For starters nobody bats an eyelid or often even knows when I collect dd as I work around it and even if in the office half the team isn’t in on the same day etc. it’s not that. Which is why I am so confused. I did actually say in the meeting ‘should I be worried or something that you are saying I’m not robust enough, is something bad happening here?’ The response was that ‘if there was an issue we would be having a very different conversation, this is just a chat for your review.’

So I feel like I did address it a bit in the meeting? I don’t know. I did get into a bit of a hole by talking about the difficulty of managing home life around work when you come back after a baby… but that was more me just being chatty. I wasn’t raising it as an issue as it isn’t? I don’t know. So confused. And now worried after posters saying they’ve got an agenda

Reading between the lines - you've had your 'getting back in the swing of it' (6 months), grace period, you're 'steadily improving' and this now needs to change.

I suspect the work/life and robust thing relates to this grace period and the level you should be working at now; not time out of the office or family distractions. Bluntly: you've been back six months, your work isn't at the standard it should be and we need to be able to give you more projects/tasks in line with the responsibility of your role and the business growth plans, and you don't seem ready.

That's my take. Hope it doesn't sound too harsh! Just my interpretation of what you've written.

'they knew I was highly capable and still working my way up on the return from mat leave…

This is what I mean. You've been back 6 months. How long do you think it will be until you're firing on all cylinders?

I don't think it sounds like they are trying to manage you out though. It's just a review. But ask for further clarification if you're unsure.

I've seen this sort of thing before and unfortunately it was the early stages of the road to pushing someone out.

I'd bet you are a lawyer. This kind of toxic gas-lighting shit is prevalent in law.

I think I will ask more about the robust comment etc. just very stressful as I am in a difficult financial situation and given how young my child is I would really struggle to move jobs right now. I am a hard worker and just exhausted due to having a toddler like most people are, I don’t think my work is bad or I am not doing it, I’m just not all corporate and obsessed with the career ladder in the way they probably expect

@eurochick which part do you think is gaslighting? Urgh I feel stressed

This is both excellent advice and phrasing.

@pensandpapwrs are you with a union, if not join one right now. I wouldn’t go around sending emails without proper advice. You want to be careful as what you put in writing can paint you in a bad light or be used to your manager’s advantage in the future to support them.

Personally the conversation you had with your manager isn’t documented…I think there’s a benefit for you to not have this documented if there are genuine performance issues. You could do what most people do and just lie/twist things and say these things weren’t raised with you if it gets formal in the future. Only if there were things that would reflect badly on your manager, would I recommend you put things in writing now eg obvious ignorance of policy that could get them in trouble.

At the moment you should be in damage control mode, emails tend to get people’s backs up. That’s possibly unethical advice though that comes from years of managing in toxic environments though- these are the techniques my toxic boss would use lol

They also said next year will be a great year for me?!

@pensandpapwrs when I do team members’ reviews nothing should come as a surprise because we have fortnightly 1:1 meetings and anything is addressed then (on the rare occasions it is needed). Nobody should find out during a half yearly review that there’s an issue because for example during a 1:1 I might have told them something like ‘x keeps happening and you need to do y’ and follow up in each 1:1. If the problem were not solved then I’d be following a process. I would definitely query/revisit the conversation.

"the person saying they are looking to get rid of me… I don’t think so as part of the meeting was how excited my manager was to build the team even further with me and they knew I was highly capable and still working my way up on the return from mat leave… so I don’t think that sounds like they are teeing up anything?"

Gently, I think you've being very naive here OP. When a manager wants someone out, they aren't overt about it initially. Otherwise you could (quite fairly) say to HR your manager had already made up their mind to get rid of you without giving you a chance to improve.

To me, that meeting was the start of them making a case to PIP you and/or manage you out. I (and other posters) could be wrong, but it's a strong possibility and you should start to respond and plan accordingly just in case.

@wordler's post and the suggested email content were spot on. Use that. You need to start documenting conversations and getting your manager to explicitly say in writing what the issues are and what measurable/objective things they want to see change. If they won't put it in writing, and will only discuss it with you, follow up with an email to document the discussion.

It's probably because you don't spend every waking hour engrossed in work and actually take the time to be a mum.

Robust? What does that even mean? Take banter? Work 12 hours a day? Be able to do an assault course? Be a stoic and not show any emotion? Physically, emotionally, intellectually robust?

It's a silly comment and goes against the very nature of a diverse workplace in my view.

I think it's gaslighty too, mixed messaging, positive one minute, confusing and negative the next. Makes you feel on the edge of your seat but there is nothing more you can give, even more frustrating when you were a top performer before going off and now you feel your whole standing has changed. 100% sounds like my manager.

God it sounds a shit environment to work in. Personally I think life is too short to work for cunts.

I've just come back to this thread having read it all because I notice the title.

Many of the things you say suggest that you have been hit really hard by your experience of having a baby/maternity.ive never heard of anyone feeling out of practice or still getting up to speed 6 months after returning to a job (or indeed starting one)

Are you ok? Have you lost interest in your work? Are your employers unreasonable? Are you regretting your career choice?

Your language sticks out to me, perhaps something needs to change?

I am a lawyer for what it's worth. You've made your half year budget. Presumably that's all been billed and hopefully paid. There's an expession