To think having children isn’t an accomplishment?

[RealGreyLemur]

It feels like society places so much emphasis on having kids as if it’s some grand achievement, but I don’t see it that way. AIBU to think that having kids shouldn’t be treated as an accomplishment in itself?

I think it is an accomplishment and undervalued. Both giving birth (felt like it to me) and bringing them up well. I think society in the UK is a bit miserable about children. Schools in my area are 25% under capacity.

I don't agree. Anyone who goes through labour and in my case suffers preeclampsia and post partum haemorrhaging and comes through that then it's an accomplishment in my book.

I haven’t suggested it to anyone, and I wouldn’t suggest it to anyone because I hear that some people find it offensive and wouldn’t continue to say something that I am aware people find offensive, even if I don’t myself. I am infertile, I heard it, along with all the other ‘it will happen’ ‘relax’ ‘my friend did x, y and z’ tropes. For me, suggesting adoption was no more offensive than suggestions of IVF because for me (and other adopters - I’m also getting thanks on my posts) adoption is not any of the things that you are saying it is. It is a different and amazing way of becoming a family. However, I understand that it is for some people so I don’t say anything in terms of advice or opinions unless I’m asked about it.

All I’m asking you to do (and I’m really not sure why you’re finding it so hard to take this on board) is stop saying things like go and get another child from somewhere, replacement etc because it’s offensive. By all means keep on telling people that it’s not helpful and you don’t want to hear it (I’d add all the other stuff that people say to try and be helpful to that list), but please stop saying these awful things about adoption. If you know it’s upsetting for some people I really don’t understand why you’d carry on.

People aren't giving you enough credit for this!

You literally said "Please don't think I am being insensitive by asking if you have considered adoption as a method of parenting?" To me that is suggesting adoption to an infertile person so I don't understand why you keep saying you haven't and wouldn't suggest it to anyone. It also blows my mind that you went though infertility, got the same tropes trotted out to you for a long time, felt the frustration and have now done the same to someone else.

I am not struggling to take on board what you are saying. I just don't believe that you're understanding the feelings your suggestion invokes in people so I wasn't just going to say sorry you're offended and drop it without you understanding so you can go and upset other infertile couples with your insensitivity. If someone had fought this corner and saved me from one adoption suggestion I would have been grateful.

We're clearly having different conversations and aren't getting anywhere so let's just leave it.

This x 100. If men did it, it would be seen as the greatest feat of humanity. And guess what - it is.

No one is suggesting babies come from a cabbage patch?

If the person who walked on the moon wasn't born, someone else would have done it instead.

There is more than one person capable of completing any task no matter how miraculous it is. It is not essential to human history that the first man on the moon was born, it would have happened either way, they would have just sent someone else.

To say that if these special women hadn't had their special babies human history would never have happened and we'd all still be living in the dark ages is silly and not helping the cause. I do believe having a child is an achievement, but you're not going to get people who don't agree to agree with you by making silly OTT statements.

Can you post to where I said that please as I’m wondering if I’m losing the plot. It’s not something that I would say or that I think I’ve said here. Are you mixing me up with someone else?

Sorry I am mixing you up with the poster I was originally quoting.

I'm clearly losing the plot! We really were having two different conversations, sincere apologies for calling you insensitive for a suggestion you didn't make! My explanations to you are actually for the person suggesting adoption to the PP. Who I would imagine has never experienced infertility or they would know better!

I'm glad you got your happy ending, I just think it's really important that people understand its not that simple to solve the pain of infertility and wish people would stop suggesting it as an easy fix.

I totally agree with you and wish the very best for you.

(it could just as easily have been me losing the plot 😉)

It’s a massive accomplishment for me. I’m in my 30s, had issues struggling to conceive, then went alone with a donor. I’m sure people on Mumsnet will tell me I’m the most terrible person in the world, that I’m selfish, and God knows what else because I’m not with a man and my child won’t have a father. They won’t have a father but they’ll have a fantastic supportive family, will want for nothing, and have a hard working mum that will provide for them. My pregnancy has sucked so far (hyperemesis) so yeah, getting to the end will easily be my biggest accomplishment!

To add.

I think there is a difference between striving to become parents - obviously not everyone wants to have children - so having children doesn’t necessarily need to be a tick box that one must do to feel fulfilled.

BUT the act of giving birth and having a child is definitely an accomplishment- even if there are many of us on the planet and it happens every day. It’s a tiny daily miracle that makes a huge difference to the lives that experience it. For me, if you’ve given birth it’s an accomplishment. The same way finishing school or graduating is an accomplishment. People do it every day, all over the world - yet education, or better, academia, isn’t for everyone - but the act of saying that you’ve completed it is a personal accomplishment.

12 pages later and OP never returned.

And here you all are arguing amongst yourself !

It’s pretty standard these days. I’ve seen threads 4/5 days old where the op hasn’t returned. I think there was a thread in site stuff about it at some point where Mumsnet were asked to close threads if the op didn’t return in a certain amount of time but I don’t know how that suggestion was received by other Mumsnetters.

Is science hard? Every person that can walk has been ‘born’ of a woman. An egg can’t walk on the moon, only a chicken. Even in the dark ages all people that can walk have been born. But if people not born in the dark ages there would be no people alive to walk on the moon in the 1960’s. If you look up dark ages you will see population decline as a trend. And increased migration. And a climate event. Imagine that climate change with no horseless carriages. To be real we really have no data on most other places on planet earth for those 500 hundred years. Other places may have thrived. If you look at history and make decisions based on what has been learned from history you would see that climate events happen with a global population of only 10% of what it is currently and no cars. And it actually made for expanded agriculture. You would see that population decline a bad thing and migration does not seem to offset it or it would have lasted a much shorter period of time than 500 years.

Science is hard yes... At least the way scientists do it.

Science is not hard IMO. I am a biologist but fuck me you're spouting nonsense.

There are enough people on the planet that if Buzz Aldrin was not born, someone else would have walked on the moon in his place. There are enough people on the planet that even if the 10 runner up astronauts behind Buzz weren't born there would still be someone capable of walking on the moon in his place so to say that one woman having that one baby put man on the moon is silly. I'm not saying if no one was ever born man would still walk on the moon, that's just stupid.

I also don't think women can claim their children's achievements just because they gave birth to them.

Some punctuation might make the rambling clearer.

What’s your point? If anything it proves the fact that it’s an accomplishment! I think they would say more than anyone that it’s an accomplishment as it’s clearly not easy at all!
they have different accomplishments surely?

Like I said. My friend has accomplished being a doctor. I haven’t. I’m not a ‘failure’ I guess I just haven’t accomplished that part of life. I haven’t accomplished being a full time working mum. That’s ok. I’ve accomplished other areas of my life.

@HorsePeopleAreStablePeople maybe not for giving birth to them (hard as pregnancy and labour is) but certainly raising them to become the person they become is an effort from their parents and the people around them.

it’s a lot of hard work sacrifice and effort to raise a child well that has reached their fullest potential which is what most parents strive for.

It’s not the same. Not remotely.

I didn’t say a mom can claim a child or grandkid’s achievement. I said having a child in itself is an achievement. And who cares who walked on the moon. It didn’t set the way for every other person to do so. I could care less who swims the ocean or who flies around the globe. Do you stare at a photo of the moon landing regularly, or do you look at family photos now and then. Which puts a smile on your face? On your death bed are you going to stoked a guy decades ago walked on the moon, landed on the moon? Are you going to be thinking about the job you were really good and happy about you retired from 15 years before?

My parents would certainly disagree with you, OP. I got cut out of their will because I don’t (can’t have) kids. My siblings all achieved the greatest achievement and so will inherit a very large amount of money. I’ll work until I die, most likely.

I think it's an accomplishment to have created kids, and brought them up.

A lot of time, and sacrifice is involved. It's not nothing, it's quite huge.

At the end of my life, I think/hope that I'll be proud of myself for this. I expect it to be my greatest achievement.

But if you haven't had kids, you'll undoubtedly have your accomplishments to be proud of.

And if you had had kids, you might value some of your other accomplishments higher, or lower than your children.

It's personal to you.

Personally I am just surviving, and don't judge everyone else.

That's very sad and feels very unfair