To think having children isn’t an accomplishment?

[RealGreyLemur]

It feels like society places so much emphasis on having kids as if it’s some grand achievement, but I don’t see it that way. AIBU to think that having kids shouldn’t be treated as an accomplishment in itself?

Why does someone else’s accomplishment of having their children have any bearing on someone else who couldn’t? The accomplishment is about what that individual achieved and should be celebrated. Maybe those who couldn’t have a baby have achieved other things in life which can also be celebrated. We can’t all do everything and everyone has their own accomplishments.

Exactly @Overthebow

I vomited for 8 months of my pregnancy, hard won by IVF. I also have 2 degrees from top ten world universities and a respected career. The pregnancy and three years of trying was harder. It was harder physically & emotionally. I imagine surviving any long term illness would also be harder even than that - something we also celebrate.

It is an achievement. Yes, it is one a lot of people will do but to be frank so are most achievements. Most people get new jobs, gcses, even degrees. We still celebrate these things with cards and text messages from close friends and family. So long is no one is expecting Time magazine or the Nobel prize committee to celebrate with them then why exclude child ‘production’ from celebrations & life achievements?

Um....think you misunderstood my point; I think unfettered population growth for monetary reasons, or any other, is wrong.

The point is how many decades has it been where society has looked down upon those who didn't have or couldn't have children and the pressure women felt. Its only recently that women realise the choices they have and there are now different pressures.

I don't see why we cannot acknowledge the societal pressures women have faced before and now without it being some sort of competition. Let's accept yes it's wrong for society to make women feel like having kids is what life is all about and without then you have achieved nothing. Lets stop the sweeping comments like well you never know true happiness until you had kids or you never know real love unless you had kids. It is comments like those that childfree or childless women have had to deal with for decades.

It's okay to say 'for me i have never felt this much happiness before I had kids' as then it is a personal comment.

So true.

Nails it.

But also pregnancy and childbirth is an achievement. If running a marathon or climbing a mountain is an achievement, why would giving birth not be one too?

Adopting a child because you want to help a child who has had a bad start in life and give them a family because it is something you want to do out of the goodness of your heart is a lovely thing and very admirable. I know a few parents who have done this and have a lot of respect and admiration for them.

Suggesting adoption as a solution to infertility makes it sound like if you just get a child it's problem solved regardless of where the child comes from. It's deductive and doesn't see the issue or the root of the pain. It's also disrespectful to the adopted themselves as it paints them as replacement children that the parents only had because they couldn't have their own. Not nice for the infertile couple or the children.

They are two very different scenarios. I have a lot of respect for adoption as a humanitarian concept, I have no respect for the idea of adoption as a cure to infertility because it ultimately does come across as as long you get a child from somewhere what's the problem.

This is a very bad attitude. So because something is done by millions of women, it's not an achievement? Absolutely absurd perspective. Thousands of people run marathons every year, doesn't mean that completing one isn't an achievement. Many many more get degrees, doesn't mean it's not an achievement.

Or is it just the achievements of women that don't count?

I agree with this. People seem to think that there are people who can’t have children, and children who need loving homes and all you have to do is bring the two together and bingo two problems solved. In reality they are two separate problems. Yes adoption can be a solution for some but not everyone.

That does not follow at all. Someone can be proud of themselves of doing something, it doesn't follow that other people should be ashamed for not doing that thing.

Things I'm proud of achieving in my life include a PhD, getting work published, having and raising my children and learning to bake. It doesn't mean that anyone who doesn't have a PhD or can't bake should be ashamed.

Things my friends are proud of that I'd have no chance of ever achieving even if I wanted to include marathon completion, learning another language, running their own business, climbing mountains. It doesn't follow that I should be ashamed if I haven't organised couldn't do these things.

I have a medical degree and a PhD and while DM was definitely proud of me both times, it was nothing like the excitement of me producing her first grandchild.

The PhD celebrations were also only really one day (the day of the ceremony/photos), whereas grandchild excitement is still ongoing 7 years later.

@DoloresHargreeves Getting pregnant is not like those things you mention though. It’s much more basic and personal. It’s not something you can learn to do or study for.

Well seeing you think this is a sexist thing thing since you mentioned women unless biology changes women can't get pregnant without men and millions of men have managed to get women pregnant but if men called that an achievement there would be cries of 'omg men can't say that it takes something away from me'

Sure I love my child but being pregnant was a fact to have them

It’s not a solution, but it is an option and not one which anyone should be made to feel uncomfortable to talk about as if it’s a guilty secret.

It’s only disrespectful for people who view adoption as a ‘replacement’. From my experience, people who adopt don’t see it like that and from no one who suggests it sees it like that. I don’t want to detract from the thread but I would ask you to consider how you could be more mindful when talking about adoption in the same way that you’re asking people to be more considerate when talking about infertility.

Oh yes because pregnancy is just “waiting for 9 months”, scientists say the physical intensity of carrying a baby is the same as running a 40 week marathon.

And just because “millions of women have done it” doesn’t mean giving birth, however that takes place, isn’t an accomplishment. It’s really fucking hard.

Well being pregnant and giving birth isn't an achievement of men, because they don't do it. And in most cases, getting a woman pregnant isn't an achievement because their part is easy.

But I would have no problem at all with a dad describing raising his children well as an achievement. Why would I? It's as much an achievement as an involved father as an involved mother.

Raising 3 kids to be high achievers, and nice people is a big achievement. I don’t expect others to give me a round of applause but what’s wrong with me feeling a sense of accomplishment? It will always trump my career success (and I love my job and put 200% into it)

Well I did study and prepare for it actually, I read lots of books and went to a pregnancy yoga class.

Not all achievements are things that require study or learning in advance, though. Bravely rescuing someone from a house fire would be an achievement, even if the rescuer was just passing by and had no training.

I disagree, it’s not more basic. Getting pregnant, pregnancy, childbirth and raising children is very hard physically and mentally and women shouldn't be put down for being proud of doing it. It absolutely is an achievement. I have degrees, career, have competitive achievements and but having my children is my greatest achievement. As an aside, getting pregnant sometimes can be something you can study for, it took me a long time researching, tracking, trying supplements, working out what works for me to get pregnant before got pregnant the first time.

Noone says its wrong for you to feel that, the OP is talking about society pressure.

I'm not sure accomplishment makes much sense as a measure of success of being a parent. It's not something that you seek mastery over, like learning the violin or becoming a skilled surgeon. Your children are people in their own right, they need you to to be humble, moderate, adaptable, kind - it's an exercise in change, care and compromise.

It is an amazing adventure though, one that brings me a profound amount of joy and satisfaction. I wouldn't change it for the world.

There should be no reason to control population growth. Ever. When a gov does it it’s for monetary reasons or military goals or control. To make them have more or have them have less is always for the government to have it easier controlling the population.

But the “society” has been pressuring the opposite for decades.

I didn’t mean basic in the sense of being easy or simple. I meant that it’s basic in the sense of what the female body is meant to do.

I was ttc in the early 1990s and there really wasn’t the same amount of information available. It wasn’t that I was too lazy to put my mind to it properly. I went through loads of IVF.

Some of the replies I’ve had show a startling lack of empathy or compassion. I do however agree that raising a child well is a hell of an achievement.