My son 2 can be cheeky and I think nursery are overreacting

[sluoa]

The last few weeks I've had some reports about the unfavourable behaviour of my son. He's 2 and a half.

Things like, not listening well and also some struggling to share.

I see it at home too. He snatches toys from his older sister, tantrums when he doesn't get his way and is generally pretty active and head strong.

I've never thought or considered that he's neurodivergent and when being told today he had a not so great day and when I said - I know, yesterday he was very cheeky at home. I do set boundaries and consequences with him etc. but he laughs in my face/ sticks his tongue out and that's what he did today at nursery.

His behaviour isn't amazing but I have an older child and her worst age was also 2 and a half. She did similar stuff and just kind of grew out of it. The nursery at the time also made some comments similar to the comments made today. They're leaving it up to me if I want to get them to investigate.

My son is very clever, he speaks really well, he potty trained before two years old and he's just generally switched on for his age. He's very active and physically able. The issue I'm seeing is his defiant behaviour. But I just thought it's age related. My daughter was very very similar. The only difference is that he's an escape artist and she wasn't. He gets out of his car seat, he can lock and unlock doors.

I'm not saying the nursery are wrong and I know better, but similarly I don't really want him on this SENCO track until he's older, if he still struggles.

At the moment he has days where he is well behaved and days where he's not so well behaved.

Should I just start this process or am I right to wait ?

I think you are being very sensible. He may be a bit lively but he just sounds like a two year old to me. As long as you keep teaching him very firmly no when he does something unacceptable I think that's fine. I wouldn't start any process unless he is totally out of control and doesn't sound in the least like he is.

It sounds as though the nursery are doing you a favour with trying to support. Ignoring a child’s behaviour / dismissing it as age related is a bit silly with professionals who obviously see a lot of children the same age, in the same environment. At the same time though, you will know your child very well and even professionals make mistakes. I don’t know of any child who was sent down a SEND route or has an EHCP who didn’t really fight for it to be honest.. I don’t think it’s going to blithely happen to you or him. It comes down to whether you really want the support for him.

I think he's too young and a few weeks of him being a pain in the arse for them, isn't enough to warrant it yet.

If this continues, then absolutely yes.

I may wait until the new year and if I keep getting reports about it and seeing he won't settle at home, I will follow it up.

What are you afraid of? Nothing bad will happen, and there might be support ready for when he goes to school, if it’s needed.

I know you are comparing him to your older child, but they have experience of dozens of children his age, so if they feel his behaviour is unusual, it may be.

But they also said stuff like that about my older child and it doesn't seem to have continued.

I think they're quick to call it.

I'm not afraid but I guess I don't want him on that track if it's not necessary.

He's hitting every milestone really well too. I was never worried about him at all.

A friend tried to start the investigation type process at 2 ish, and didn't even get seen for diagnosis until 4 and a half. They were suspecting autism but eventually got a potential ADHD diagnosis. So it can be worth pursuing just in case, and if there's nothing or they grow out of it then no issue, but if they did need support then you're already on track. Still, saying that basically my friend was told that 2-3 was too young to tell anyway!

I think it’s totally normal at that age. I used to get a raspberry blown at me if I said something dc didn’t like! It was quite funny. Toddlers are all that way; but it is useful to introduce some consequence like time out or taking away a favourite toy for a small amount of time. Anything that makes them realise they’ve got to stop and say sorry.

Sounds like you’re considering it and keeping an eye on the situation, OP. That sounds wise. You don’t need to rush to any decisions right now.

The PP saying “Toddlers are all that way“ - that is simply not true.

Agree, neither of mine would have behaved like that (and they are both neurodivergent).

OP, have a look into PDA and see if that resonates.

It honestly won't do any harm to look into things a bit further. I can honestly tell you hand on heart that I was highly offended when my son's preschool teacher broached the subject with me. She was 100% correct. My son is also really clever and very chatty. Remember they see lots of children and deal with all sorts of different behaviour so they have a good idea when there might be an issue.

I have a 2.5 YO and I don’t recognise the behaviours you’ve described honestly. It’s either lack of boundaries or ND, I see it in other parents that ignore when their children snatches / pushes. If you think you’re responding effectively to his behaviour and it’s having no impact then maybe you should explore things further with the nursery.

It's absolutely not unusual for a two and a half year old to snatch/ not be able to share.

Just because yours doesn't do it... pick up any parenting book and it will tell you so.

It's really not unusual. It takes some children a while to learn to share and take turns.

This sounds like normal two year old behaviour and I definitely wouldn’t get bothered about a two year old sticking their tongue out. You will always get tiresome comments from the parents whose little darlings would never dream of snatching a toy. Just keep on reiterating your rules and enforcing the boundaries, it will sink in in time as they learn to control their impulses.

Sorry, but If a child laughed in my face and stuck their tongue out at me, I would think that’s pretty rude.

I was just thinking the same. My ND kid would never ever be cheeky. Has always hated being in trouble, would never laugh at someone telling him off.

I mean it's up to you, going on a list will do no harm but also if you want to watch and wait that's fine too. I wouldn't say that his behaviour is indicative of being ND though but all ND kids are different.

@sluoa I'm sure there are some absolutely remarkable 2.5year old boys that don't tantrum or snatch toys from siblings but I'd warrant, far more of them do than don't. That's not to say there's no possibility your child needs some support, but I'd agree with first setting more boundaries at home and see if behaviour improves. I'd also double check there's nothing else nursery is worried about.

Struggling to share and not listening alone at 2.5 seems unlikely to be cause for a referral

There is no value in waiting.

If you get on the waiting list for an assessment of some kind and while you're waiting the concerns clear up then you just come off the waiting list. No harm done.

He isn't going to be diagnosed with something he doesn't have because he was a bit cheeky at nursery for a few weeks.

Of course it's rude ! It's not ok but some kids do that. My older one did it as well, no matter how much I told her to stop doing it or have consequences for doing it.

She also used to kick the floor sometimes. The bigger deal I made out of it, the more she'd do it. Once I ignored it, she stopped doing it.

If the nursery are pulling you up on it then they're obviously seeing something they don’t see too frequently in other children.

Im a regular at a number of playgroups and I see that behaviour in a handful of children. One of those parents has said she suspects ND given family history. Others behaviour is often ignored by their childminder/parent/GP.

Im sorry if my post offended you, I was trying to suggest early intervention is best, especially if you can rule out other reasons for your DS behaviour.

I see them pulling up literally every mum in the room about something ! ' oh she didn't sit still long enough at the table today ' ' he didn't have his listening ears on today '. They've always got something to say to pretty much every mum at pick up.

There's also a boy who hits and both my boy and his friend have told me and his mum about it.

I do see your point but also think that waiting lists are as long as they are because people are there who could have done with waiting for 6 months for the child to develop. I do have experience of this personally and know the value of early intervention. But I wouldn't advise someone to get on a waiting list because a 2.5 year old boy is struggling to share. I would definitely advise speaking further with nursery to understand their concerns and being sure to listen with an open mind and take notes. And then decide on further action if necessary

He sounds headstrong to me, not neurodiverse.

I wouldn't seek a diagnosis unless it's causing him genuine day to day functioning difficulties

He's also not quite 2 and a half yet. He's still got a couple of months. I just think he's young but I'll keep an open mind for sure and if it continues, I will pursue it.

I’d decline SENCO and have very consistent beige/ boring consequences for absolutely all naughty or defiant behaviour (ie he doesn’t get response or attention out of it) to extinguish it asap.

My Dd is bright but headstrong and can be quite bold she’s just over 2.5 but she knows now that mummy doesn’t play… I can actually see her thinking “hmm will I do X and she looks at me weighs it up and thinks hmmm… nahhh not worth it
😅

Both my kids are very headstrong, outgoing and just THERE. I don't know why. But they're just not shy children. They're very lively and friendly to everyone.