My son 2 can be cheeky and I think nursery are overreacting

[sluoa]

The last few weeks I've had some reports about the unfavourable behaviour of my son. He's 2 and a half.

Things like, not listening well and also some struggling to share.

I see it at home too. He snatches toys from his older sister, tantrums when he doesn't get his way and is generally pretty active and head strong.

I've never thought or considered that he's neurodivergent and when being told today he had a not so great day and when I said - I know, yesterday he was very cheeky at home. I do set boundaries and consequences with him etc. but he laughs in my face/ sticks his tongue out and that's what he did today at nursery.

His behaviour isn't amazing but I have an older child and her worst age was also 2 and a half. She did similar stuff and just kind of grew out of it. The nursery at the time also made some comments similar to the comments made today. They're leaving it up to me if I want to get them to investigate.

My son is very clever, he speaks really well, he potty trained before two years old and he's just generally switched on for his age. He's very active and physically able. The issue I'm seeing is his defiant behaviour. But I just thought it's age related. My daughter was very very similar. The only difference is that he's an escape artist and she wasn't. He gets out of his car seat, he can lock and unlock doors.

I'm not saying the nursery are wrong and I know better, but similarly I don't really want him on this SENCO track until he's older, if he still struggles.

At the moment he has days where he is well behaved and days where he's not so well behaved.

Should I just start this process or am I right to wait ?

Definitely speak to someone more senior and ask them. I had multiple meetings with school and the word Autism was never used. Just multiple hints, suggestions and it was incredibly confusing. There's a real reluctance in these settings to commit to saying outright ND in case they're wrong.

You might come away from a meeting equally confused. Hopefully they'll give you some clarity.

Oh come on, forget about neurodivergent or PDA.

The condition he has is called BEING NAUGHTY.

Stop all this pussy-footing around, set some proper boundaries and just get him to do as he's bloody well told.

YANBU.

Being cheeky, naughty, unfocused etc.. isn't a condition and doesn't mean a child is neurodivergent at all. He just sounds like a toddler.

I'm sick of everyone overdiagnosing kids!

Because OP has no reason to argue against them other than ‘in my opinion it’s normal behaviour for a 2 year-old’. Clearly the staff have more knowledge about ‘normal’ 2 yr old behaviour than OP?

It’d be like a doctor telling you your blood pressure is too high, and you saying ‘I don’t believe it is.’ On what basis?

@Ace56 as plenty of people on here have said, it's normal behaviour though?

At 2 my nephew would cry and scream any time he heard the word no. By 3 he was so polite and well mannered.

@Ace56 it's literally nothing like the doctor telling you that your blood pressure is high. Because that's black and white.

And even so, there's nothing wrong with questioning doctors either- they're not gods.

I need to advocate for my kid here. He's got a bit of time. If he's that bad, they would push far more than they have or just chuck him out.

I agree.

I went to the hospital in December and as a new driver had just driven a lot further on much larger roads than I was used to. It stressed me out a lot.

The doctor there wanted me to see my GP immediately for high blood pressure (150/95) because I was stressed.

I ended up having to monitor for a week at home.

I have a feeling, as pp have said, that the staff aren’t telling OP the full story though. If it really was just normal 2 yr old tantrums then why would they bother mentioning it as a concern? What do they have to gain from that?

@sluoa Or you’re just in denial about how bad his behaviour is?

I would ask them straight next time ‘honestly, is this within the realms of a normal 2 yr old or do you think there’s something more?’ Ask them for more detailed examples of how it’s unusual and why. Snatching toys and saying ‘no’ is normal, but I reckon there’s more to it than that.

I think I was spoken to about DS's behaviour almost every day at nursery. He was very naughty. But also very charming and engaging and the staff loved him. He got away with murder as they just laughed indulgently when he was naughty.
At his stricter pre school he was still naughty but was very bright and they also liked him. He had an older sister who was very well behaved so they knew us all well.
Reception he got put on a behavioural watch list. I posted endlessly on Mumsnet about what to do. By the end of Year 1 he was off 'the list'.
Ten years later absolutely no issues, very polite ( other parents always telling me), chatty, doing very well at school. A very normal teenager.

OP- yes, he may have other issues but he sounds like a pretty normal 2 year old!

I do wonder though, I've seen a few threads where people have gone through assessment and not been diagnosed. They then went through an alternative route (either privately or perhaps NHS again) and were then diagnosed. If we're saying that a diagnosis can be missed at the first instance, can it not also happen the other way around, where a diagnosis is given but is wrong?

Btw, this isn't a comment about diagnosis in general, more because people on this thread have said several times that a diagnosis can't be given in error. So just wondering how come it happens the other way round, and if there's any science/reasoning around that

I'd imagine so.

2/3 is so little. They're still babies really. It's so early to diagnose.

A textbook case of Littlus Buggeritis. It tends to start around 24 months and can last for a couple of years. Academics believe the best way to treat this disorder is with regular cake and wine, administered parentally - that is, to the parent.

Or as my sisters in laws do - send them to me (auntie) because we can put up with it and don't have to be strict 🤣

The nursery sounds unprofessional and lacking in basic child development knowledge.

A SENCO referral that begins at 2 means if he does have SEN review will be when he’s 4/5. If you wait longer for the referrel you’ll he waiting for years and the potential for it to help will be limited. Eg my sil refused to even test dn for adhd (against medical advice) until he was 11 - by then he hated school, could barely read, the secondary was limited in terms of the support they could provide other than to manage symptoms (anxiety, anger etc), and he had no friends until after he left school as he was known as ‘the bad kid’.

DN has got a job now, a gf, but everything was despite sil not because of her and her refusal to help him has meant she doesn’t get to see him very often.

DS has more severe adhd symptoms than DN and gets practical support. So despite only nearly 5 can almost read better than DN did his entire school career, is learning routines to help him sit still to do homework, and we’ve been advised to try and manage some of the excess energy through sports and music. He’s not on medication yet despite most kids needing it with his symptoms because the practical support with managing his routines /energy / anxiety has been awesome and early. I’ve paid for it all though (including his school) which I do resent a bit but there is no denying the results.

Are the nursery suggesting he be assessed as having SEND?

I have been there and, based on my own experience and the piece of info you provided, I would not overthink it.
My DS has always been veeeeery active, pushing boundaries all the time, not listening to instructions. He peaked between two and four year old. Nurseries he attended to were regularly reporting his behaviour.
However, at the same time, he never had trouble concentrating on activities he liked, he's always been smart and a quick learner, good language, great communication skills. In general he's one of a kind, with a strong personality and clear opinions.
This mixed to the challenges of being a toddler created a very explosive mix!

Fast forward to now, he's in primary and doing great. He still has the occasional problem with following instructions, but it's more and more clear that this is by choice and the more he's getting aware of boundaries and consequences, the better choices he makes. He's still active, curious, passionate about learning and an interesting child all round.

What I noticed in the last couple of years in school/clubs is that the instances when he 'didn't listen' were always in situations led by unexperienced teachers/coaches. He's attending a lot of extra curricular activities and the ones he loves the most are those with the older/more experienced/stricter coaches, which is kind of counterintuitive. There have been two instances of missbeheavour (think more not listening/laughing/not following instructions) and both times the leaders of the group were not experienced in engaging young children. I am not saying all young children are acting like mine, but teaching techniques really need to adapt at that age.

I would not go down the SEN route as yet if I were you...

Stop excusing rude and wrong behaviour as cheeky.

This is how young boys turn into grown men who disrespect women and people in general because they were never held accountable for their actions.

The phrase Boys will be boys springs to mind.

Sounds a bit OTT of the nursery. Makes me wonder if they have ever met any two year olds.

That's really sad if they're talking about toddlers. They seem to have very high expectations ie. that children are born knowing how long they need to sit at the table, or when they need to listen.

Do they also tell you about positive things?

Is it all the staff who focus on the negative, or a particular one?
And if the children are hearing all this negative stuff about them they're going to feel really sad and wonder e.g. will she tell Mummy about the beautiful painting I did, or that I climbed up the slide steps all by myself or that me and Toby had so much fun playing in the sand?

We're talking about a 2 year old. 2 year old girls can be equally naughty. They're not all mini Andrew Tate's because they're a pain in arse at nursery sometimes.

In 1 year of collecting my child at nursery I have never heard staff give negative feedback to any parent. So it sounds like the nursery OP uses has got a weird vibe.

That said, who knows what the behaviour is like. The fact they are so negative w8th everyone means their word is not a reliable indicator.

The nursery sees many toddlers of the same age every day and they've specifically said yours is not behaving like the others. My daughter definitely didn't act like you describe at 2.5.

There's two things possibly going on:

• He has neurodiversity or a disability which makes it harder for him to behave well and needs different discipline strategies to improve
• You're not providing enough structure/boundaries/discipline at home.

The nursery is saying that his behaviour is disruptive and causing issues for other children. It's not really on for you to say that you think it should be fine. He either needs support, or you need to up your game, it's one or the other. Just expecting them to ignore it is not OK.