My son 2 can be cheeky and I think nursery are overreacting

[sluoa]

The last few weeks I've had some reports about the unfavourable behaviour of my son. He's 2 and a half.

Things like, not listening well and also some struggling to share.

I see it at home too. He snatches toys from his older sister, tantrums when he doesn't get his way and is generally pretty active and head strong.

I've never thought or considered that he's neurodivergent and when being told today he had a not so great day and when I said - I know, yesterday he was very cheeky at home. I do set boundaries and consequences with him etc. but he laughs in my face/ sticks his tongue out and that's what he did today at nursery.

His behaviour isn't amazing but I have an older child and her worst age was also 2 and a half. She did similar stuff and just kind of grew out of it. The nursery at the time also made some comments similar to the comments made today. They're leaving it up to me if I want to get them to investigate.

My son is very clever, he speaks really well, he potty trained before two years old and he's just generally switched on for his age. He's very active and physically able. The issue I'm seeing is his defiant behaviour. But I just thought it's age related. My daughter was very very similar. The only difference is that he's an escape artist and she wasn't. He gets out of his car seat, he can lock and unlock doors.

I'm not saying the nursery are wrong and I know better, but similarly I don't really want him on this SENCO track until he's older, if he still struggles.

At the moment he has days where he is well behaved and days where he's not so well behaved.

Should I just start this process or am I right to wait ?

I think that everyone on here is missing the fact that before private nurseries came along, the official starting age for nursery children was and still is 3 years old in council settings, up until say around 20 years ago the only option until private nurseries sprung up all over the place. His behaviour from age 3 should be the only bench mark. Before then it really shouldn't count.

I think it's more like 30 to 40 years ago. My older son is 25 and attended private nursery and they weren't a new thing.
I think demand has soared in the last 20 years.
You point stands though, while I think overall, early years carers should be alert to possible behavioural/emotional/developmental issues and that nurseries should meet certain standards (OFSTED), the drive to have them follow a curriculum and for the staff to spend time filling out developmental sheets has gone too far.

My daughter is the same and same age, I'm going to speak to my HV.....my son is 7 and was very forward and very clever from a very young age, he was really well behaved but we are waiting for an assessment on him, it's a 3yr wait, I'm going to ask for my Daughter to be referred as then if she needs support it will be in place sooner

Maybe look at another nursery, they sound a a bit authoritarian to me, a Montessori or somewhere might be better?
Why is it any child who doesn’t fit in to social norms, or have a bit of a defiant personality, are being labelled as neurodivergent. Hes 2.5 for God’s sake!! He sounds pretty normal to me!

I have 4 children 2 acted like this 2 didn't - guess which 2 are ND oh and btw your DD could still be ND most girls don't display ND with their actions and you don't find out until they suddenly start struggling socially at high school.

Speaking as a parent with a now 16Y DS who is still waiting for an assessment for Autism & ADHD. My DS was showing signs at a young age but nothing really big and I was also didn’t want to “label” him if it wasn’t necessary. Boy do I regret that now. He started secondary school and things got a lot worse. His school were so unhelpful it’s taken me 5 years (we now have an assessment next week) he had to go ask through school with zero SEN support. It’s been a looooong road. If the school have suggested, go with it. The wise that can happen is they say there is absolutely nothing wrong. If he is ND he will be on the radar and receive the support he needs.

This sounds a lot like my third kiddo. Out of my four kids her behaviour has always been different (and today (nearly 10) she had her ADHD diagnoses, finally!)

I found with my DD that her behaviour got harder to handle as she got older until we had some extra support from the school, when she was around 6-7years.

Personally I would rather have the support from the nursery as (1) it’s always better to get onto neurodevelopment referral (if needed) sooner rather than later as the waiting lists are sooooo long!
(2) If it is something he does grow out of having some “behavioural support” will help him do this and it’ll help you too, if you find you struggle a little with managing his behaviour.

And having the support there and not needing it is definitely better than not having it and you find you do need it.

Also, my biggest concern is her going to secondary school and just being written off as naughty, and the primary school support and a diagnosis at least means they will now officially have to support her.

I hear you but I'm still going to give it until after Christmas.

2.5 year old shouldn’t be punished. at this age they are asserting their independence- which should be encouraged and not suppressed. it’s important to draw a line but also give him space to make his own choices. e.g. “you must share (affirmed order) so let’s take turns, do you want to go first or second? (he makes the choice). e.g 2, it’s bedtime. which pjs do you want to wear today?

Separately, is he getting one to one with you? it kids do certain things because they get attention, are you able to give this attention in normal circumstances?

Finally, it’s very odd for nursery to react this way, because every toddler goes through this (“terrible twos”) so they shouldn’t bring it up in a negative way!

I was pulled into nursery a few months ago for the same reason of struggling to share and listening and attention needs work. The difference is my DS is also speech delayed so I’ve gone along with every suggestion and referral but he still doesn’t qualify for additional funding and no-one is willing to refer him to be assessed for autism. He’s just turned 3 now and doing so much better. Often it’s just an age thing and when you look up autistic traits in toddlers they overlap with typical toddler traits.

I do really think it would be helpful to have a chat with nursery though and say you’ve been receiving a lot of negative feedback about X and what are their actual concerns. Specifically ask if they think he could be autistic or ADHD. Ask if there is anything at home you can be doing to support the behaviour and maybe you can have regular progress reports from this point on.

It all sounds totally developmentally normal.

At 2.5 my daughter was very cheeky. Even when she started school at 4, she and a friend were the first ones to get in trouble because they gave themselves a "shower" in the toilets 🙄

She's now 10 and is like a 40 year old in a child's body; the most sensible girl you'll ever meet with gorgeous manners. She's usually the one keeping her dad and I in check 🤣 beyond really extreme behavior, you can't make assumptions about how children will be in the future based on how they behave at two.

That is absolutely normal for a lot of kids. People are so quick to say adhd or autism etc. I have 8 children and 2 grand children. My youngest is 3.5 and he is a cheeky sod. A child of 2.5 not sharing or having tantrums is very normal. My 3.5 year old doesn't always like sharing. Hell, I don't always like sharing

I think you are absolutely right to wait. I think if you don’t have any major concerns now as his mum, wait and see how you feel in the new year. You’re being very sensible. He’s 2 and a half. The behaviours you mentioned are not concerning at all! X

It’s definitely normal behaviour, my two year old did it a lot unfortunately, especially as he was an only child at the time, but what are you doing at home to correct it? We did lots of books on sharing and every morning before he went in to nursery I spoke about being kind and not snatching and sharing. It’s reasonable for nursery to want to address these behaviours as it can affect other children there and cause upset, which they obviously have to intervene in. Again, what corrective behaviours are they doing with him and could you do those at home?

From my experience if they’re telling you about it - it’s more than just a few weeks. He’s been doing it for ages where it’s now tipped into more than normal for his age. I’m a teacher and I don’t tell parents about every little thing until I start to notice patterns or it becomes out of the ordinary.

Going by what you’ve posted I’d be taking a watch and wait approach - unless there are other behaviours the staff have noticed. If he is still doing it at 3 I’d be more concerned as someone who works with that age group.

Is that why it’s called terrible twos?

Can you ask for a meeting with nursery so they can explain a bit more why they think his behaviour is outwith neurotypical boundaries for his age? You should be able to discuss this and come up with a plan to work with him together for the best outcome. Be that referring now, or waiting for future milestones.

At 2.5, he’s too young to tell if he has ADHD as he might grow out of this phase. Could be autism but there would need to be a lot more behaviours to even consider it IMO. It couldn’t hurt to look into what autism actually is. It wasn’t until I did that I realised my daughter could be ND.

We got her AuDHD diagnosis aged 7 but I will say that my daughter is highly articulate, extremely intelligent and met all her milestones too so I wouldn’t dismiss it.

I think you know as a parent if your kid is ND but sometimes this only happens after research! I was adamant my daughter’s issues were age appropriate until they weren’t and I had to accept that she probably was ND.

Yes ds21 is ND and he always behaved impeccably at school. In fact in his school report in y7 the teacher said ds didn't understand when others didn't follow the rules! He would get very upset if he felt he was in the wrong.

Thank goodness someone is thinking the same as me, why is everyone seeming constantly looking to put a label on children, it seems almost every child these days is either ND or ADHD or has autism or autistic traits. Are there no allowances made any more for the fact that not all the children are the same, and develop at different stages, it’s ridiculous.
Even adults are queuing up to be diagnosed, the world has gone mad!

I think you're right.

It's all too easy to label a child when actually they really could be just been their authentic selves and pass through the period.

Give them a chance before intervention is needed.

And for context even as a 33 year old I don't like sharing stuff either.....

Sounds like a normal 2 year old but I would be wary about the whole sticking tongue out etc. as that is learned behaviour so thinking where he picked that up from?

I would say though there is a big difference between not listening/not sharing and hurting other people, which he is clearly not doing, so go with your gut.

Two year old doesn't listen well and snatches toys off other children....stop the press!

Sounds like a normal 2 year old but I would be wary about the whole sticking tongue out etc. as that is learned behaviour so thinking where he picked that up from

Probably got in with a wrong crowd....be vaping next