Christmas time off

[Girlinblue]

This will be my second Christmas in this job. I work in a team of 5 and we are closed for the bank holidays but other than that there has to be at least 2 people in. Last year I worked Christmas Eve and the days between Xmas and new year. so was hoping that I would have it off this year because surely the fairest way to do this is to take it in turns each year?

Christmas time off has been talked about a few times because we just have to decide between us who is working when. It doesn’t get allocated for us. A couple of the women that I work with have talked about having Xmas off again because they have kids and have things to sort out. I said yes but I don’t really want to work it again because I did it last year and you both were off, so it’s not very fair if the same people are getting it off every time. They are saying that the people with kids should take priority. But just because I don’t have kids doesn’t mean I don’t also have things to prepare and things/traditions of my own. I want to spend time with my family and make plans etc just as much as they do.

I was thinking of bringing it up in a meeting to my manager to say how it needs to be split fairly. Myself and my other child free colleague also deserve to have the time off and our Christmas isn’t any less valuable to those with kids. i know some people don’t care about Christmas and some people do think it’s just for kids. But for me it’s not, I have a big family that I rarely get to see throughout the year and Christmas is the time that I get to see them and spend time with them.

Would I be unreasonable to bring this up further and insist that this should be split fairly each year? How is the best way to do it without causing unnecessary drama?

For the record, my reading of the thread is most parents (me included) don’t expect people who don’t have kids to be treated unfairly. That’s because we are not dicks and remember life pre-children when lots of things were equally important to us.

There's no holiday clubs at Christmas thought. So if it's a single parent I genuinely don't know what you would expect them to do.

That’s on the parents and management to resolve, not the OP.

People who cannot work on Christmas need to choose jobs with that in mind. Not arbitrarily decide that a random childless colleague can just go right ahead and cover all the shifts they can’t do.

Since when has it been decreed that "Christmas is for children?"

Since some lazy employees decided they could legit use their kids as an excuse to get out of doing their fair share I guess.

I heard it a lot back when I used to do shift work, because the parents never wanted to do Xmas Eve or Xmas Day. That's "for children" apparently. I guess a lot of people have lost sight of the fact that Christmas is actually a religious holiday! They miss out on all the "magic" apparently 🤮

Maybe it's the autism and ADHD talking, but I never really felt like I missed out on having to cook a big meal with far too many elements and timings to worry about, deal with family in my house hyping up my neurodivergent children about Santa and presents, overstimulating them and stressing them out, bringing stupid things like singing Santa into the house that they hated and then being upset that they hated the novelty shite, having people tell me I'm spoiling my kids because I don't make them eat things they don't want to on Christmas, and expecting me to wait on them and anticipate their every need as well as deal with my kids being out of routine and stressed. Magical my arse. What's magical is working over Christmas as it makes family stay away and you can keep your life calm 😂😂😂

(I jest a bit, I do visit family at Christmas but I stopped hosting a long time ago and the work rota was a not inconvenient excuse!)

OP, I hope you make it very clear that you have commitments this made on the basis that you presumed you would be off having worked last year.

You have every right if told otherwise, for it to be confirmed on paper that your childless status is considered lesser than those with children in the company's terms and conditions.

That will be completely discriminatory.
Check with ACAS too.

Childlessness isn't a protected characteristic in law, which may be why so many organisations feel comfortable with allowing a tier system to develop in which childless employees get shafted.

My arsehole colleagues use the fact that, by contrast, maternity is a protected characteristic to pressure management into continuing the status quo. I'm not convinced that this would actually hold up in a court (because I assume that maternity is related to the short period after the child is born, not the position where a woman has e.g. kids aged 5, 7 and 9), but it was enough to make my employer really wary of not giving in to them.

Not fair at all. You have as much right to time off as they do (you have more right than them as you worked last year). I have worked the last two Christmases and I have a young child.
Bring it up with your manager. They need to sort Christmas leave out fairly, that should be part of their job. Point out that you need time off and as you worked last year you should have this year off.

What happens if everyone in team has little kids to make Christmas magical for?

A protected characteristic means an employer can't discriminate against you on that basis, which means they can't put you at a disadvantage with their policies or refuse to employ you because of a protected characteristic, etc.

So with working over Christmas, the employee would have to make the argument that the requirement to be on a Christmas rota and work a certain number of shifts/days to provide business cover is discriminatory in some way towards mothers. I think it would be very difficult to make the case that it is, because it is not essential to be with your kids on Christmas day to "feel the magic". That's something a mother might want, but it is not something an employer could be legally obligated to accommodate (as opposed to a child's sickness, medical appointment, childcare emergency, etc).

It could of course be discriminatory if an employer will not be flexible with a single mother who has tried to get childcare and absolutely can't. In this case, it's the employer's responsibility to deal with that, not childless colleagues, and when I worked on a 24/7 shift rota as a team lead then it was very clear, if someone couldn't do their shift and nobody else could swap or cover, a TL or manager would step in. But if a mother just entirely refuses to even consider working over Christmas because she just wants to be with her children on certain days, that's really not going to count as discrimination.

@CrazyGoatLady I agree. Unfortunately, my employer doesn't see it the same way.

Last year’s thread on this subject had a poster arguing that children would be permanently damaged by not having a parent there on Christmas Day and that childless workers had a duty to facilitate this whenever possible.

You are definitely not being unreasonable. At all.
The perceived entitlement and arrogant attitudes of those with kids at holiday time if astounding. The world does NOT revolve around your children. People have their own family priorities; children are not the be all and end all of everything

Wtf??
I fope they were shot down in flames

Perhaps they should manage their fecundity before expecting everyone else to facilitate their selfish lifestyle
Do you really think that the childfree might not have parents/siblings/friends to see or be with?

I’d have also thought this could end up backfiring. I know that, quite rightly, employers can’t ask whether someone has children but if parents all refuse to work at certain times, isn’t that going to lead to people being more cautious about employing them?

I understand that's a hard position to be in. I would imagine that most decent colleagues would be sympathetic to a single parent who has a real problem covering shifts over Christmas. This is more about people who take the piss by using kids as an excuse to automatically get out of days they don't want to work.

I was the child of a single parent nurse back in the 80s. My mum would have found it laughable that she could have got out of rota shifts because of me. Most of her colleagues were in the same boat. I got shipped to friends/neighbours/ extended family for the hours she was working, and we still did Christmas. Just might have been before or after a shift.

When I started work my mum said at her workplaces they tried to prioritise child free younger colleagues to get the time off, on the understanding those people usually lived alone or in flatshares and would travel to see family, whereas older colleagues generally spent Christmas at home. Granted I think more parents had one stay at home parent in those days. I hope your manager works out a fair rota. Silly of your colleague to announce plans to fake sick leave.

exactly! When I was in my 20s I had a colleague do a MASSIVE sulk on me because I wouldn't swap days with her close to Christmas.
She had a PFB and lived a 20 min walk from the office, next door to her parents. I was child free but my family lived in a different country so needed to fly home for Xmas... I wouldn't swap because I needed the time to travel. She banged on about it for months afterwards.

I was a homesick 22 year old. living in a different country and hadn't seen my family in 6 months but apparently having given birth superseded that...

Never forgot it. Times when multiple people are off need to be put on a rota.

When I was a working single parent I made it very clear I couldn’t work xmas as had no childcare. Some of the people I worked with weren’t happy but the manager understood

That's very different to someone feeling entitled to have Christmas off simply because they think their family time is more important than others because they have children though. Most people will understand your situation if there are just no childcare options, you don't have family nearby, etc.

It should absolutely be shared equally. Just because they have kids doesn't give them the right.

I also hate the sharing of Christmas because what if they get this Christmas off then leave by the next one and then you're in the same position again.

Nogaxeh · Yesterday 15:29
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Did you not see the other thread from the parent who can't find childcare and is being asked to work over Christmas?
I do think that people who don't have childcare responsibilities should do the decent thing and volunteer to work over Christmas

Don't be foolish. Why on earth should they? The people with children made that choice. No-one else should be expected to facilitate that choice.

I've got a great one this year.....we've finally managed to recruit a third consultant. Before it was me and one other. He's a Muslim so doesn't celebrate Christmas but does like to occasionally take the opportunity to visit family or non Muslim friends over Christmas. We've sorted it out between ourselves for 5 years now.

This year as we both ended up working last year due to lots of junior staff illness, the new consultant is on the rota for over Christmas. However, because I don't have children I should do it for the third year running because she needs to be there for young kids etc. her husband is a sahd btw so no childcare issues. Our other colleague will be on a sabbatical so she was ok with him not covering as he'll be in Australia from end November until feb. So it's me who should step up so she can have Christmas morning with her (teenage) children. My plans can be moved, apparently, and done at another time of year.

I'm getting married in Christmas Eve.

That is appallingly selfish of you @daliesque wanting to get married when your colleague has delicate sensitive teenaged children who will be scarred for life if their mother isn’t with them for the whole 24 hours of Christmas Day.

But seriously, I hope you’ve told her in no uncertain terms that you are on annual leave/honeymoon this year. And that it’s her turn.