Christmas time off

[Girlinblue]

This will be my second Christmas in this job. I work in a team of 5 and we are closed for the bank holidays but other than that there has to be at least 2 people in. Last year I worked Christmas Eve and the days between Xmas and new year. so was hoping that I would have it off this year because surely the fairest way to do this is to take it in turns each year?

Christmas time off has been talked about a few times because we just have to decide between us who is working when. It doesn’t get allocated for us. A couple of the women that I work with have talked about having Xmas off again because they have kids and have things to sort out. I said yes but I don’t really want to work it again because I did it last year and you both were off, so it’s not very fair if the same people are getting it off every time. They are saying that the people with kids should take priority. But just because I don’t have kids doesn’t mean I don’t also have things to prepare and things/traditions of my own. I want to spend time with my family and make plans etc just as much as they do.

I was thinking of bringing it up in a meeting to my manager to say how it needs to be split fairly. Myself and my other child free colleague also deserve to have the time off and our Christmas isn’t any less valuable to those with kids. i know some people don’t care about Christmas and some people do think it’s just for kids. But for me it’s not, I have a big family that I rarely get to see throughout the year and Christmas is the time that I get to see them and spend time with them.

Would I be unreasonable to bring this up further and insist that this should be split fairly each year? How is the best way to do it without causing unnecessary drama?

This

I'm a nurse with children. We are expected to work bank holidays and over Xmas. I've never thought it was fair to ask those without children to work xmas/easter. Your definitely not being unreasonable, and I would bring it up with your manager

Tell your manager all of this. You don't even have to name names.

"Hello Sue, I wanted to talk to you about the Christmas leave rota. I know you were hoping we would all sort it out between ourselves but it is already descending into a bunfight and I think we need you to step in and do some more active management because we can't resolve this conflict on our own. From my point of view, I was really hoping to have some time off this Christmas because I worked all through last Christmas and I would like to spend time with my family. But I'm getting comments from certain colleagues to the effect that their wish to have time off over Christmas trumps mine because I don't have children and they do. One person has even said that if they are put on the rota they will call in sick because they want the time off with their children and are also planning to host extended family this year. I wanted to make it clear that I find this attitude utterly unacceptable. If it is absolutely indispensable to have people working over Christmas for business continuity reasons then fine, but the number of staff rostered to work should be kept to a bare minimum and we all need to take our turn, including the people who have children. Otherwise, I can tell you how this will go. I'll have to work this year because I don't have children and other people do. And then next year I will have to work again because I still don't have children and other people do. And then the following year, until I either put my foot down and cause an almighty row, or I simply hand in my notice on 23rd November one year, ready to start a new job in January working for someone who respects the fact that I have an equal right to have time off over Christmas. I really don't want it to come to that which is why we all need you to manage the situation and come up with a fair solution. Thanks for your cooperation."

And if you're feeling really cheeky you could ask Sue whether she's planning to be off for Christmas herself, and if so, why she hasn't been part of the discussions about who gets the time off and who draws the short straw.

I wouldn’t tell the manager what she said.
a) it might be hot air and she has no real intention of following through
b) your manager might take it seriously and decide he can’t risk being short staffed, so make someone else come in instead.

To be fair in that thread both parents happen to be scheduled in a clash on xmas. Generally I would hope that karma would see them hopefully on opposing rota most years.

If I were that manager I'd allocate the leave fairly and then inform the team that anyone on the rota to work who calls in sick on a day they requested off but didn't get will be put on performance review.

100% this

Noones plans are more important than another's.

Children are not the be all and end all of Christmas... I'd rather see a parent who has a relative/friend looking after the children work the Christmas period than a person who wants to visit an elderly family member who would otherwise be alone.

I say this as a parent who has worked part of the Christmas period, including Christmas days ever since my eldest was 9 months old.

The rota should allocate time fairly between all staff and no give preference to those who have kids purely because they have kids.

I think it's a really tricky one.
I didn't have children until I was 39 and 42yrs old. I spent 23yrs always volunteering to work any shifts and just juggle my own commitments because as an adult I could understand that although Christmas is really lovely for everyone, for small children it's just completely different, they believe in Santa, it's just so special and magical and something I never understood until I had my own. I would be genuinely heartbroken to have to work Christmas Eve and miss that excitement with them while mine are little HOWEVER I don't feel entitled to it, and would absolutely say to any colleagues whatever their circumstances that their Christmas is just as important. I guess what I don't understand is the idea of someone upsetting others just out of principle though. I'm lucky I work with genuinely lovely and kind people though who all try and compromise.

What planet do you live on?

Thankfully my industry shuts down over Xmas so it isn't an issue for me. But my dad has advanced stage dementia so like absolute fuck would I be volunteering to work so people with children can stay home with them.

Parents choose to have children, and childcare is something for them to consider when taking a job. I didn't choose for my dad to have dementia and need caring for. And nor am I alone in this.

Also...people with small children ALSO have relatives to travel to see, and also have elderly relatives to care for. This will be my dads last Christmas.

How many people with small children also don't have a car? Because I think that is a factor to take into consideration.

There's really no factors to consider at all.

The manager should do a rota and people should take turns.

Thee end.

Being a manager is easy if you never have to manage. That’s what’s going on here.

I have DC. YANBU.

And besides, I thought you already committed to cousin Albert’s invitation? 😉

I don't think it should be a factor. I clearly said it needed to be fair but I'm just saying there are also lots of people with children need to travel to see family. And I would say lots and lots of families don't have a car. (We have one but know lots who don't).

Working over Christmas (or not) matters to people for a variety of reasons. And other people's children isn't the 'one ring to rule them all'.

This year, I don't want to work Christmas eve because I want to visit my elderly PILs on that day. They've both had serious health issues this year. I've worked Christmas eve (and days around it) for years.

If anyone implied that their need to be with their children on Christmas eve daytime automatically trumped mine without good reason, I'd be seriously pissed off with the entitlement.

People are always going to have a reason why they don’t want to work Christmas & that’s why a rota is the only fair way to do it. With, as someone else said, sanctions for anyone who goes off sick on a day they asked to have off & didn’t get.

I guess what I don't understand is the idea of someone upsetting others just out of principle though.

Which childless person on the thread has indicated that they try to get Christmas off just because they can, even if it’ll upset mums of tiny kids, rather then because they have their own needs and/or family to consider?

I’ve said that I won’t be co-operating with the parent colleagues who treated me like dog shit for 7 years. If they’re upset by that then they shouldn’t have treated me that way.

Maybe for you that’s me being petty but for me, doing them a favour would be being a doormat!

If a new parent joined my team and wasn’t a dick, then of course I’d help them out.

As bad is the colleague who if they don't get want they want rings in sick - we have sone one like that where I work - she didn't get what she wanted last year (despite having had Christmas off for 3 years) so called in sick for the 3 days she was working. Has since also called in sick when she didn't get the holiday days she wanted in the summer - sadly poor management and she gets away with it again

The point is that there are no trains in the UK on Boxing Day. So if you don't have a car and you have to work on the 27th, you can't go away for Christmas. I don't think that's such a big deal if you live with your partner and children because you can just stay home and visit your family before or after Christmas. But if you live alone and don't have a car, getting the 27th off is the difference between spending Christmas with your family, or spending it completely alone.

.

Admittedly because I do work in a profession where we all have to work xmas and so on none of us are allowed to book that fortnight off - everyone will get one or two days leave in the fortnight

There are 8 'crap' shifts - xmas eve night, xmas day, xmas night, boxing day, boxing night, new years eve night, new years eve day, new years eve night (xmas eve day doesn't count)- part timers have to work 1 of them, full timers have to work 2 - and in fairness most of us will go 'I had christmas off for the last two years it's my turn this year

Where my mum worked they were open between xmas and new years and it worked out that each of them needed to work one of those days but could have the other off

My husband and one other person have to make sure they are off opposite each other - they have agreed that one of them will work xmas eve the other will work the 27th so they each have 3 days in a row -

Why should I give up my Christmas and time with friends and family because I don't have children?

Please explain why this makes me less worthy of fair treatment or indecent to not sacrifice my leave because I can't have children?

In response to the suggestion that people without childcare responsibilities should volunteer to do all the Christmas shifts, you could just as easily say that people with childcare responsibilities shouldn’t take jobs where they might have to work over Christmas. And one would be as reasonable as the other.

It should be shared out. Everyone should have the time off in turn if there’s no volunteers.
kids, no kids - irrelevant. Pre-kids I always wanted to go home to my family, still do usually.

Absolutely bring it up to the manager, and point out that it can't be decided on by your team and needs to be allocated. No one has more of a right to be off for Christmas than someone else. I work in healthcare, no days off over Christmas, and it's expected that one year you work Christmas, the next new year, and it's non negotiable. Manager needs to implement this and be responsible for being involved. Children do not make you more improtant.