AIBU to be absolutely livid with this palliative nurse?

[Smallwhitebutterfly]

My dad had a massive stroke. We were in hospital for a few days before a palliative care nurse came to see us for the first time. I asked her to describe the signs when someone is dying - she said sometimes they frown if they're in pain and their breathing becomes erratic. Just as she was saying that my dad started to pause for a few seconds while breathing. We told her he had been breathing regularly before that. And she did say that was a sign he was deteriorating. Then he did this big grimace after being completely unresponsive and not moving his face at all for the past few days. We asked her about it and she said it looked like he needed to cough. But she didn't say this is it, it's happening, he's dying right now. She kept chatting to us about what the palliative care team did and gave us her contact details. Because she made it seem like this wasn't his final moments I popped out to the loo quickly. When I got back my dad had stopped breathing. Thinking I had missed his last breath I rushed to his side to tell him I loved him and he gave the tiniest gasp and didn't breathe again. AIBU to be angry that this woman experienced in death who didn't realise his final moments were happening and stole precious minutes we could have been speaking to him as a family? And also that it made me question whether I was actually there for the last breath? (I realise some of this anger may be misplaced grief...)

Consciousness continues for a while after the last breath, so your dad likely knew you were there with him.

Thank you. This is exactly what I needed to hear as I did not know this. It gives me great comfort to learn this.

He knew you were there (apart from the brief toilet trip), he would have heard your voice. I’ve read a few times that sometimes our loved ones seem to wait until their family have left the room to take their last breath. I’m sure he knew you loved him. Sorry for your loss 🌺

Hearing is one of the last things to go. He heard you and was comforted by it.

Sorry for your loss. I agree with the others here, and having been with my dad when he died last year I felt it all - I replayed and replayed every single second of it, questioned everything that happened or could have happened. Including anger at everyone, guilt, the lot. I really, really recommend Cruise Bereavement counselling if you need it. Best wishes x

OP - it is really quite well documented that very often, a dying person will wait till loved ones have left the room and then die. This is quite possibly what happened in your case.
It really is very hard to predict - my relative was given a few days and kept going for nearly 6 weeks, pretty much unconscious the whole time.
My mother was expected to live months and died in days. It’s very individual. Sorry for your loss, hope you can find some peace.

You couldn't of known, if experienced nurses/doctors can't predict it you couldn't of knows. Death, like Birth is unpredictable. What matters is that you were there before and when it happened and he knew you loved him. Please go easy on yourself and remember alot of the anger and bargaining is completely normal reactions to grief. Allow yourself to grieve but don't allow yourself to dwell on thoughts that are negative towards yourself, you done all you could and you were there.

I don't know if it helps, but sometimes people who are dying seem to wait until they're alone before they go. I think some people want that, to be given privacy to die.

It's horrible to feel that you didn't get to say goodbye properly.

People usually wait for their loved ones to leave when they pass. It's very common, even dogs do it.

I am going though this today, my Dad has gone into a hospice today he has had prostrate cancer for 17 years. Now he has sepsis. I hope for my dad’s sake he passes as quickly as yours did. Most of us in our family are nurses but we know what death is, but my mom was struggling with pain relief at home, think it is a good move. Think look at this from a different angle. How quickly & painlessly he passed. No one can see the future or predict death.

Yes, my MIL mother waited until she left the room before passing away.

OP, the nurse or a doctor would not know when your father would die. Its unfair to blame the nurse.

I am sorry for your loss but it is almost impossible to know when someone is going to die. I was called 4 times and told my relative was in his final hours, each time his condition improved. Eventually I was called again and told he was very close to death. I rushed to the hospice thinking I might not make it and sat there for 9 hours before he passed.

I’m sorry for your loss, it’s so hard to lose someone you love so much.

I hope this makes you feel better - when my Grandad died, our family all spent time with him. I was the last one to be with him and I left. On my way out I decided to go back for just another minute and then set off home. He apparently died minutes after I left and the nurse who was looking after him said she had seen this happen many times. I like to think he’d said his goodbyes and wanted to go on his own.

My dad died alone. I asked was he close to the end, was told he was being moved to palliative care but he wasn’t showing any signs that death was going to happen too soon, we were told weeks more than days.
I’d asked because I thought he was showing some signs. I allowed myself to be told I was wrong. We went home and I was called at 8am the next morning to say he’d died.
I was angry at first but soon realised there was no point. He died alone and nothing will ever change that.
so I focus on his life, what he meant to me and how fucking lucky I was to have such a remarkable human as my dad.
He died 2 years ago, so give yourself time. But please don’t hold onto anger, it takes up room where live and joy can live.
I’m so sorry you lost your dad. Sending you lots of love.

Firstly, I’m terribly sorry for the loss of your beloved father. I understand though that even after a person’s last breath their consciousness remains for some time as the brain doesn’t shut down as soon as the last breath is taken. Please be assured you were there for him at the end xx

Yes you should. Bereavement is bloody hard, and you have to be kind to yourself. You did the best you could.

He knew you were there at the end, knew he was loved and would have took comfort from that.
I'm a nurse, and have witnessed dying many times and even I was out of the room when my dad went, 10 minutes earlier he had been chatting and laughing then said he was tired and needed a lie down, I was out of the room to let him rest when he passed. But ultimately I was with him his whole life, shared good, bad, and happy times, celebrated successes, and commiserated losses. In the grand scheme of life those are the times that matter.

No palliative care nurse is going to tell you not to go to the bathroom! Some people stay in the ‘any time now’ stage for days, there is really no way of knowing ahead in terms of minutes.
The nurse didn’t rob you of anything, you’re understandably all over the place emotionally but it’s misdirected as anger towards this woman.

I’m so sorry. It’s hard to think you’ve been robbed of their final moments. I’ve been doing a similar job for over 30 years and I still don’t always get it right. Along with others, I know of so may who take their last breaths just as their loved ones pop out. I don’t know if it’s something akin to animals choosing to slink off and die somewhere alone. Who knows? What I do know is I was with my mum when she died too young (she was taken off life support so it was predictable) and my thoughts are still that she wouldn’t have wanted me to witness it. Lots of love to you.

I'm sorry for your loss. Unfortunately there is no way she could have known, even with her job role. I can see how the circumstances surrounding his final moments must feel unfair to you and I'm sorry this happened, but it isn't her fault.

it’s impossible to know, someone could go days / weeks with those signs. My friends mum lived 3 days after the death rattle began. None of us were with my dad in the end, despite 3 times being told this is it, then he improved. In the end he died when we were all asleep. I console myself with the fact that he wouldn’t have wanted us all sitting there watching him.

There's no way that the nurse could know for sure when someone is exactly going to die.

I'm sorry for your loss.

She has not done anything wrong.

I can only echo what most have said here. No matter how experienced you are, you can’t predict the end. My late DH slipped away peacefully after being taken off a ventilator - he collapsed when a previously undiagnosed lung cancer went critical. Never regained consciousness. We were left in peace by the ITU staff to be with him in the hours before he died - they pulled all the monitoring equipment behind the curtain around his bed so we wouldn’t be distracted by it, and kept watch from there. It was only when he stopped breathing that the nurse came in and said the monitors indicated he had passed. His facial expression never changed throughout. I appreciate that you’re angry, but there really is no way to know. I’m very sorry for your loss.

So sorry you went through that.

My mum died last year and I know this will sound silly, but it was nothing like you see on TV or films. It's much more mundane and unpredictable.

I'm one year on and still not sure how I feel about what happened. Be kind to yourself it will be very raw to start with.