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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to be absolutely livid with this palliative nurse?

183 replies

Smallwhitebutterfly · 07/10/2024 18:43

My dad had a massive stroke. We were in hospital for a few days before a palliative care nurse came to see us for the first time. I asked her to describe the signs when someone is dying - she said sometimes they frown if they're in pain and their breathing becomes erratic. Just as she was saying that my dad started to pause for a few seconds while breathing. We told her he had been breathing regularly before that. And she did say that was a sign he was deteriorating. Then he did this big grimace after being completely unresponsive and not moving his face at all for the past few days. We asked her about it and she said it looked like he needed to cough. But she didn't say this is it, it's happening, he's dying right now. She kept chatting to us about what the palliative care team did and gave us her contact details. Because she made it seem like this wasn't his final moments I popped out to the loo quickly. When I got back my dad had stopped breathing. Thinking I had missed his last breath I rushed to his side to tell him I loved him and he gave the tiniest gasp and didn't breathe again. AIBU to be angry that this woman experienced in death who didn't realise his final moments were happening and stole precious minutes we could have been speaking to him as a family? And also that it made me question whether I was actually there for the last breath? (I realise some of this anger may be misplaced grief...)

OP posts:
ispecialiseinthis · 07/10/2024 19:26

I believe people in these situations choose their moment to pass. A friend’s mother was in a coma overseas for weeks and weeks and passed within hours of her arriving at her bedside - I don’t know if she was physically at her side at the moment she passed, I didn’t ask and she didn’t say. However, it was almost like she was holding on for her to arrive.
Others wait to be alone.

It’s only a belief, I can’t prove it, but I hope it brings you comfort.

Marblesbackagain · 07/10/2024 19:26

I am sorry for your loss. All the nurses can do is give you the benefit of their training and what you described is textbook from the courses.

Your reaction is completely normal, we naturally are angry, we want to know there is blame why we weren't there.

They reality is sadly the passing could have been anytime.

PregnantandPissedoff · 07/10/2024 19:26

Dr here - sorry for your loss, but you're being unreasonable.
People die suddenly, people die slowly, we can't predict it. From personal experience my grandfather died slowly over 24 hours, the moment my grandmother went into the kitchen having literally not left his side, he took his final breath.

zeibesaffron · 07/10/2024 19:28

Sorry for your loss, experienced nurse here you can never tell when death is coming I am afraid - my own Dad took small breaths for about 3 hours before he passed away. He would take a breath, mum would look at me and we would wait - we would believe that was it, then he would breathe again. It is so difficult to predict - people can deteriorate. seem to improve and deteriorate again x

Breakfastofmilk · 07/10/2024 19:30

I'm really sorry you're going through this but I also agree it isn't the nurse's fault. My mother-in-law did that stopping breathing thing for about two weeks before she actually died - at first we were all watching anxiously and holding our own breath every time but you can't do that for two weeks. We had someone sitting with her 24/7 but in the end she died about 6 am when my husband had left to go to the toilet after sitting up all night with her.

My mum also told me it's very common for people to skip away when they're alone.

What matters is that you were there in general for your father. Clearly you loved him and wanted to be there for him and I'm sure he knew this.

mrssquidink · 07/10/2024 19:31

Please be easy on yourself, I know things will be very raw for you at the moment. As it happens, I wasn’t there when DM died (had to go back home, which was a 2 hour drive away). Ten years later, I’m at peace with that. I said my goodbyes the day before in one of her last moments of lucid consciousness and that’s enough. You were there as much as you could be and your dad knew he was loved and supported by you.

And yes, I agree with PP who say people often wait until relatives leave before they finally died. DM died just after my dad popped out to pick some things up from Sainsbury’s.

AllTipAndNoIceberg · 07/10/2024 19:32

Agree with most pps but more importantly, I am so sorry.

EeyoresLostTail · 07/10/2024 19:33

Very sorry for your loss what a horrible senario to experience I would be wanting some answers too

Windsorlady · 07/10/2024 19:34

I asked a hospice nurse about my dad and she thought he had a week or so to live but he died that night so every patient is an individual ...I am so sorry for your loss ...think of all your happy memories of your father xxxx

DanielaDressen · 07/10/2024 19:36

I’m sorry for your loss.

agree that death is very unpredictable. The hospital rang me every day for two weeks, often at 3am saying come now, this is it. Two weeks later she was sat up in bed eating toast. All in all she lived another month. I was a wreck. They do their best.

DeliciousApples · 07/10/2024 19:36

My loved one died when I wasn't there too.

A nurse said to me that sometimes they wait until they are by themselves before they depart so as not to upset those around them.

I think that's true. I think they see loved ones and just go to them. So maybe it's the loved ones on the other side to arrange the timing.

It's good he didn't linger. He knows how much you love him.

Bellatrixpure · 07/10/2024 19:36

I’m so so sorry for your loss but kindly, YABU.

I lost both my Dad and Grandma this year, my grandma was on end of life care for weeks, my Dad, 2 days. It’s impossible to know exactly when it is going to happen

creamandcookies2 · 07/10/2024 19:36

EeyoresLostTail · 07/10/2024 19:33

Very sorry for your loss what a horrible senario to experience I would be wanting some answers too

Answers for what? Death is unpredictable, no nurse or doctor can give an exact time of when it's going to happen unfortunately. Sometimes it seems like minutes away but people can hang on for days.

So sorry for your loss OP. You were there with your dad for his final hours of his life, he would have known how he was loved.

Mamabobogo · 07/10/2024 19:36

Of course you’re angry it’s part of grief as lots have said, I was angry with everyone when my dad died suddenly, people crossing the road, people being happy, hoppy people (how dare they), sad people (they had nothing to be sad about).

it’s a process and will pass.

WillowTit · 07/10/2024 19:37

i am so sorry
yours is a natural response.

Mcginty57 · 07/10/2024 19:39

I'm sorry for your loss, whilst there are signs that indicate someone is actively dying they don't know exactly when it is going to happen. When my mum was in hospice last year I called the nurse in and said her breathing changed now, she said this could be a sign the end is near or she could continue on like this for a few more days. As it happened, it was 20 mins later. Anger is a stage of grief and sometimes we misdirect it. You were there and that's the most important thing, sorry again for your loss.

WeeOrcadian · 07/10/2024 19:39

I'm so sorry for your loss OP FlowersFlowersFlowersFlowersFlowers

Be kinder to yourself, it's ok ❤️

sonofrageandlove · 07/10/2024 19:39

Sorry for your loss. It’s definitely misplaced anger though, she hasn’t done anything wrong

StrictlyAFemaleFemale · 07/10/2024 19:40

There's a lot of anecdotal evidence that parents wait for their adult children to leave the room, but they never show you that in the movies so people don't expect it. Don't beat yourself up x

Original poster
Smallwhitebutterfly · 07/10/2024 19:42

Mcginty57 · 07/10/2024 19:39

I'm sorry for your loss, whilst there are signs that indicate someone is actively dying they don't know exactly when it is going to happen. When my mum was in hospice last year I called the nurse in and said her breathing changed now, she said this could be a sign the end is near or she could continue on like this for a few more days. As it happened, it was 20 mins later. Anger is a stage of grief and sometimes we misdirect it. You were there and that's the most important thing, sorry again for your loss.

Thank you. I think I'm probably also upset with myself for not realising it was the end and leaving at that moment - v briefly!

OP posts:
Namechangencncnc · 07/10/2024 19:43

I really recommend the podcast Griefcast. You'll see there's really no 'perfect death' and many people's parents die when they've just left the room for a moment. I found it really comforting when my mum died alone and I felt so angry that no one had been with her. It helps to hear other experiences.
So sorry for your loss. It is an indescribable feeling of realising that one moment they were there, and the next, they were gone.

stichguru · 07/10/2024 19:43

Be angry. My dad died a year ago aged 74, I'm angry. Angry that we didn't have more hours/days/months/years together. Be as angry as you like. However don't be AT ALL angry at the nurse. She didn't know. My dad's last moment looked the same as every other moment for maybe 48 hours. If she'd said - it could be, then you wouldn't have gone, but how long for? I doubt you could have held it in for hours or days... I'm so so sorry for your loss. Also, years before my dad died, I worked at a hospice and sometimes people seem to know when NOT to died in front of a loved one... strange when they are so near gone... but maybe he was in some way waiting for you to need a wee!

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 07/10/2024 19:44

Smallwhitebutterfly · 07/10/2024 18:43

My dad had a massive stroke. We were in hospital for a few days before a palliative care nurse came to see us for the first time. I asked her to describe the signs when someone is dying - she said sometimes they frown if they're in pain and their breathing becomes erratic. Just as she was saying that my dad started to pause for a few seconds while breathing. We told her he had been breathing regularly before that. And she did say that was a sign he was deteriorating. Then he did this big grimace after being completely unresponsive and not moving his face at all for the past few days. We asked her about it and she said it looked like he needed to cough. But she didn't say this is it, it's happening, he's dying right now. She kept chatting to us about what the palliative care team did and gave us her contact details. Because she made it seem like this wasn't his final moments I popped out to the loo quickly. When I got back my dad had stopped breathing. Thinking I had missed his last breath I rushed to his side to tell him I loved him and he gave the tiniest gasp and didn't breathe again. AIBU to be angry that this woman experienced in death who didn't realise his final moments were happening and stole precious minutes we could have been speaking to him as a family? And also that it made me question whether I was actually there for the last breath? (I realise some of this anger may be misplaced grief...)

Death is so strange.

Sometimes our loved ones cling on, and wait until we're not there to let go.

This wasn't the palliative nurses fault.

It took days for my grandad to go, he kept looking like these were the moments then rallying and so on.

If your dad was made as comfortable as he could be in his final moments then I don't think there's anything to complain about.

You loved him and he loved you.

Theseventhmagpie · 07/10/2024 19:44

I’m sorry for your loss. I experienced something similar with my beloved father, nurses saying he wasn’t ill enough for hospice then he died 3 days later without us being there.
I’ve since done a lot of reading around death and dying and have read that frequently the dying wait until loved ones are not there before they pass.
It took me 7 years before I could look at a photo of my father without crying, now I can look and smile at the good times and I hope you reach that stage sooner than I did. Sending love x

Bee23 · 07/10/2024 19:45

It sounds like your dad held on until you were there because you were important to him, I hope you can take comfort from that and be glad you were there and did all
the right things.