AIBU to be absolutely livid with this palliative nurse?

[Smallwhitebutterfly]

My dad had a massive stroke. We were in hospital for a few days before a palliative care nurse came to see us for the first time. I asked her to describe the signs when someone is dying - she said sometimes they frown if they're in pain and their breathing becomes erratic. Just as she was saying that my dad started to pause for a few seconds while breathing. We told her he had been breathing regularly before that. And she did say that was a sign he was deteriorating. Then he did this big grimace after being completely unresponsive and not moving his face at all for the past few days. We asked her about it and she said it looked like he needed to cough. But she didn't say this is it, it's happening, he's dying right now. She kept chatting to us about what the palliative care team did and gave us her contact details. Because she made it seem like this wasn't his final moments I popped out to the loo quickly. When I got back my dad had stopped breathing. Thinking I had missed his last breath I rushed to his side to tell him I loved him and he gave the tiniest gasp and didn't breathe again. AIBU to be angry that this woman experienced in death who didn't realise his final moments were happening and stole precious minutes we could have been speaking to him as a family? And also that it made me question whether I was actually there for the last breath? (I realise some of this anger may be misplaced grief...)

I'm so sorry for your loss.
When my Uncle died, we had been there with him for about three days, and he was largely unresponsive. We asked a nurse about going to get food, and she said it should be ok, and would call us immediately with any issues.
We had been gone 20 mins when she called. We got back there just over 10 mins later, and he had gone. She was apologising and apologising, but apparently it's not uncommon for someone to slip away as soon as they're alone.

I was told the machines were off and it would be soon with my mum. Three days later I popped home for a shower. Guess when she decided to die 😂(I know that's common for lots of reasons)

My family and I were sitting at my sisters bedside after the palliative care team told us she had hours to live. We stepped outside for the nurses to turn her and she took her last breath while we out of the room. They told us this often happens. Likewise when my partner died I had gone down to the cafe after being with him for hours. As time goes on you may home to think that it didn’t really matter. You were there when it counted.

OP, this sounds really upsetting and I'm sorry for your loss. But no, I don't think it's fair to be "absolutely livid" with the palliative care nurse. Of course, she's experienced with death, but she still can't know the exact moment he was dying. She did already kindly and gently warn you he was deteriorating, so you would be somewhat prepared for the inevitable happening soon. But she can't be blamed for not knowing this was the exact moment, as these 'moments' can go on for quite some time before the real moment of death occurs. And it does sound like you were actually there for his last breath.

Again, my condolences 💐 It's a difficult time, but try not to let the grief make you angry. It's hard enough to lose someone without being angry at someone who has done nothing wrong.

Take care x

YANBU to be upset right now
YABU to be “livid” with a palliative nurse.

Sorry for your loss but honestly, the nurse did nothing wrong. Be kind to yourself, he knew you were there 💐

Your anger is understandable, but misdirected. The nurse did nothing wrong and couldn't have been expected to predict when would be your Dad last moments.

Sorry for your loss OP. My Dad passed a few years ago and I was with him. I had spent days by his side while he was acting how you described your DD. I don't think the nurse could have said anything more than she did. I really think it sounds like she was trying to soothe your nerves and I don't think you can be cross about that. It sounds like you were with him in his final moments and he was lucky to have you there. I am sure that was calming for him OP

Oh love, you've hit the nail on the head, which is admirable when you're in such pain. What your feeling, I think, is misplaced grief.

When Mum died we were told she had 24 to 36 hours left. But that time was a little like an elastic band, it could stretch out, or it could rebound. In fact, it could do both.

I've heard that some medics believe that some patients wait to be alone before they die. I believe my Mum hung on until my brother in law got there to support my sister. But I think that I suppose to comfort myself.

Whatever gets you through (anger, tears whatever) is fine, as long as you don't act on those feelings.

We were told on the Sunday afternoon that my Dad would probably die that night. I stayed up all night but nothing happened. He kept going for another 6 days. Mum and I had to go and get some sleep at times, we couldn't be there 24/7.

On the following Saturday the ward nurses said they thought he would last another couple of days. So Mum and I decided we'd head home for the evening. My Dad then died just before we got our stuff together to leave. If he'd hung on for another 15 minutes we would have missed being with him when he died.

It's really hard for the staff to tell. And to us, he didn't look any different for the three days before he died to the day he actually died.

I'm really sorry you lost your dad, but it sounds like he was being cared for and died peacefully.

My dad died while I was out of the room trying to contact the terrible mcmilllan nurse we had. I had been gone 2 minutes.

People often die when relatives leave the room. He knew you were there though.

I am very sorry for your loss op.

If it’s any consolation, many parents die when their adult children, who have been with them for hours, choose to step out of the room briefly. So your circumstances may not have been much different even if you had been able to be there for longer.

As others have said, death can be very unpredictable and it sounds like this nurse had only just met your dad a little time before he died. I’m sorry she wasn’t able to give you more forewarning as it always comes as a huge shock when it happens, even in quite dire circumstances.

Also, I say this very gently, as you will be feeling very raw right now, but perhaps in time you will come to feel a sense of relief that your dad didn’t linger and suffer a long time prior to his death. And that you were able to be with him in his final days.

Sending strength 💐

sorry for your loss.

yabu
dying is not as predictable as that. it can take days/weeks/months...
and sometimes dying people 'wait' for loved ones absence to peacefully let go.

I know it sounds really crazy but I often found patients died when their relatives went to the canteen or popped home often after days of a bedside vigil. Over my 18 years as a nurse I experienced it dozens of times. It was almost as if they didn’t want their relatives to suffer. I’m so sorry for your loss.

YABVU.

I am sorry for your loss.

Mil was in a terminal state. GP said it could be imminent.
McMillan nurse thought it was soon.
A health care assistant who had been in that role for over
40 years gave mil a few days. This was on a Monday.
Mil died on the Thursday.
DH had stepped out of the room to use the loo.

Ditto. You are a caring, devoted daughter

Im so sorry for your loss, be kind to yourself. As others have said it is impossible to know when those last minutes will come. I went to visit my grandad the nurse on the desk said he is doing well just ate all of his lunch she had just taken the tray away. I walked in and he had died. Poor nurse was horrified. He had been stable and just eaten all his lunch. It was just his time. I couldnt be angry with her or him. He was peaceful and well cared for that was all i could ask for.
Having worked for the nhs for 25 years I have often witnessed patients passing just after family leave it is very common. I have also seen patients who I'm certain won't be there on my next shift rally and make it home. None of us can predict when anyone will take their last breath. It sounds like he went peacefully and knew he was loved.

Sorry but Yabu

I'm sorry you lost your dad like this but as a nurse for 45 years it really isn't always possible to predict an imminent death.
Sometimes it is and sometimes it takes us all by surprise.
It is however quite normal to feel angry about it and the staff.
A dear friend of mine aged 45 some years ago who had terminal cancer was sitting bolt upright in bed doing yoga and meditation and we were all chatting around him when we suddenly realised our friend wasn't breathing any more. He had died without anyone realising.

This. I’ve known two people in close family who have waited just until their loved-one who had been there for days straight had popped home for a quick change.

Sorry for your loss.

I am so sorry, Smallwhitebutterfly.

The nurse did nothing wrong. The precise time of death cannot be predicted. People can show signs of dying on and off for a couple of weeks at least. My mother-in-law did for about four weeks, she had Cheyne-Stokes a lot of that time.

At least you were with your dad at the very end. Many people cannot be, they might be driving to be with them but arrive too late or even in another country. You were with him to the end. Take some comfort from that and he is at peace now.

You take care of yourself.

Sorry for your loss and I understand you are in pain but I think if you’re honest with yourself you will realise no one can predict the exact moment someone will die.

I’m so sorry for your loss.

my auntie was in palliative care and told 24-48 hours. She battled for 11 months. It’s hard to really know x

She did nothing wrong. You’re looking for someone to blame and be angry with because you can’t just be angry at death, lots of people have that reaction. But… there really isn’t anyone to be angry at. That nurse did nothing wrong, she didn’t know. You just have to let yourself go through the grief process and forgive yourself for not being there the way you wanted to be. He knew you were in the room. That’s better than it could have been.

Thanks so much for all the replies. The YABU replies are actually helping as I think I am, not angry at myself, but really kicking myself for not realising it was his final moments and popping out. So if it was not obvious to an expert - and she should be blamed for that according to the replies - I guess I should be easier on myself too.