Kids not wanting to attend SILs wedding after argument

[comfortablynumber]

My sister in law is getting married in 3 weeks. My daughter is a bridesmaid and my son is an usher. However we’ve all just had a huge row and now my children don’t particularly want to go either. Looking for advice.

Both my kids are in private school. Daughter year 10, son year 11. SIL very much disapproves of our choice. She also has a child in year 11. Over a family Sunday lunch we were discussing plans for post GCSE education. We’re not pulling the kids out of school during GCSEs but the fee increase is too much long term. The plan therefore is for them to complete their GCSEs in their current school and hopefully then get a place at the excellent local state school for 6th form. The local school is C of E which is why we couldn’t get in for senior school (I have some thoughts about that, but that’s another thread!) However for 6th form current pupils just have to achieve high GCSEs and new pupils very high GCSEs. They make offers to new pupils based on school predicted grades and the number of applicants etc. Last year for example to get in for A level maths you needed to be predicted a min 7 as well as scoring highly in an exam the school set.

I thought SIL would be happy, but she lost her mind. It was triggered by a comment my son made- he said he was looking forward to going because it would be nice to go somewhere bigger, meet new people and because most of his friends from his current school were also applying. His current school is selective and high achieving. Son is predicted 7-9 in almost everything and most of his friends are the same. We’re talking a year group of 150 kids with at least 50+% now applying to the local school (previously I’d say 10-20% went after GCSEs). This will obviously massively increase the competition for the places they can offer to people who aren’t already pupils.

SIL went off. It’s not fair apparently that her son and his friends may not be offered a place because of competition from kids who had the benefit of private education. She genuinely said that there should be a sort of tier system - like university contextual offers. The thing is, that other than the great C of E school the other school options aren’t good at all (hence us going private.) Son asked SIL if she was saying that because he’d been privately educated she thought he should go somewhere not great for A levels, and she said yes! Apparently he’ll do fine anywhere. Son said he didn’t want to do “fine”- he was aiming for better, and some of the other local schools don’t even offer things like further maths or A levels other than the basics.

DH (her brother) pointed out that the levelling up of state schools she thinks will happen when private schools lose pupils would take some time and there were bound to be issues initially, especially when lots more kids look to go to state schools for A levels in a few years. He’s been pissed off with her for years and pointed out that this is what she wanted. My son and daughter are very upset that their aunt seemingly doesn’t care that much about them.

I’m more sympathetic. Nephew has struggled in the school he’s currently in (also not able to get into C of E school) with low level bullying. He’s had 3 maths teachers in 18 months and his science teachers have been dreadful. The drama teacher is currently filling in in GCSE English lit for unknown reasons and it’s not going well. It’s all been a bit shit and I know they are hugely keen for him to go somewhere different for A level. However his predicted grades aren’t brilliant and he was always borderline as to whether he’d get in based on last years offers- the additional competition may well mess things up for him. SIL has been really upset about his school for a long time which is one of the reasons she’s been so cross about us going private. Apparently the local schools would have been better if the private school and the Cof E didn’t cream off the better pupils. She’s not wrong (don’t want this to be a thread about educational policy though) However my son and daughter are I think rightfully annoyed that she’d be happy to send them there!

It all got very fraught until my MIL nearly burst into tears and people calmed down. However the children are now saying they don’t want to be in her wedding. This is my problem- do I tell them to suck it up (outfits bought, far to late in the day to drop out, not doing it would cause possibly unrecoverable family strife, they love their cousin and my SIL when she’s not upset and speaking without thinking) or do I let them chose not to? They’re young and cross and I’m know they haven’t thought through the long term ramifications.

DH says we should leave them tonight but he’s not exactly impartial. I actually like SIL (despite being often and vocally judged) and think that everyone will end up regretting not going. I also think she’s a worried mother who is seeing the possibility of her child not getting a place somewhere he really wants to go. I’d be upset -and I am upset for nephew.
What do I do?

You've said your sil is nice. I assume then that you have a good relationship normally. If your children don't go to her wedding because of an argument, that would be downright cruel and nasty.

Besides, your sil has a point.

There have been several PPs who have outright said the OP's son does not deserve a place at the good 6th form. It wasn't me that reduced the argument to that. Yes, OP's kids have had privilege, lots of children have all kinds of privileges, for example, many children do not have physical and neurological disabilities as I do, but I don't suggest that they are less deserving of things they have worked hard for.

@Caerulea
". I do wonder if your own guilt has stopped you making them fully acknowledge the situation. Did both you & DH do private school yourselves?"

I do feel guilty. I went to a shitty comprehensive in the 1980s and genuinely bear the scars. (Got stabbed with a box cutter in the girls loo once!) DH (and SIL!) both privately educated.
There was no way I wasn't going to give my kids the best opportunity I could. Their school experience is so unlike mine as to be unreal. Feel massively guilty though. I voted Labour knowing this would happen. I didn't think about the short term implications though.

I am guessing your SIL was in favour of VAT on private schools but now doesn’t like the consequences.

This completely! Fifteen year olds often speak without thinking; SIL is the adult here, not her nephew and niece. It their parents choice to send them to private school, they are children and do not have any influence on government policy. In the abstract, SIL is correct, but as an adult she shouldn't be making her nephew and niece feel guilty for the decisions of their parents.

why are you expecting the 15 year old to show more maturity than the adult?

@Werecat Um. She literally told them she wanted them to go to a crap school because you paid for them up to GCSE. Nope. She was talking about the system and asked an offensive - and unnecessarily personalised question - by an arrogant, and entitled 15 year old, and she gave the answer he was looking for. And even then, she didn't say she "wanted" him to go to a crap school, just that overall that would be better than the alternative and he'd probably be okay anyway, because there's lots of evidence that's the case.

@MaterCogitaVera This is one of the most interesting and thoughtful posts I've read on MN for a while. It represents one of the joys of this site, ie, the many opportunities to learn how to think more broadly and communicate more effectively. I can be a bit of a hothead at times so it's useful to see how a more measured approach to a situation can take things forward amicably (even though I'm not in the specific situation being discussed here).

She's an idiot for saying that to young teenagers about their own futures. They will probably always look at her differently now and when she's calmed down she will probably kick herself.

With the children I think they should go to the wedding. It's a good lesson in being the bigger person.

She isn't. But he started personalising the debate and mocking her. And please remember there is another 15 year old here - SILs - and his behaviour his even more offensive towards him.

I'd let your kids make their decision.

Ultimately, if they are old enough for your SIL to upset them - because clearly she judges them as old enough to hear her frank and opinionated thoughts - then they are old enough to make their own decisions and face the consequences of those decisions.

That being said, I agree with PPs that regardless of what happens next that their relationship with her might never recover. And you shouldn't force it to either.

Aaah she thought the private school thing would only hurt other people?? It's not like people weren't warned exactly this would happen....

I'd tell the kids to put a brave face on it and they have to go to the wedding because as others say, you can agree to disagree but for her to raise her opinion at a family dinner, fight with a teenager and then get close to tears is so childish it's ridiculous

Sadly, they need to “be the bigger people” understand her pov and bow to never talk about it again.

Maybe you as family come up with an “apology” strategy … so all can move on.

Yes, my thoughts exactly! She needs to apologise for the way she expressed her views (though they are valid in some ways) She shouldn’t let her feelings on private schools generally affect her role as aunty.

He's not at the school currently. Hoping to go as are a lot of kids.

Well your son certainly has all the tact of a 15yo!

Did you not try to change the subject? There's no way my parents would've let me carry on like that. Time for a no nonsense chat with your DS about his privilege and punching up Vs punching down.

You seem very aware of the moral issues with private schools, have you never spoken to your DC about this before? I was sent private for secondary for similar reasons (in Ireland though, so a different system) and we had those conversations from the get go.

Your DC need to understand their privilege, and also that family members can disagree without falling out. If they don't attend the wedding then that'll be it, game over for cordial extended family relations.

I wouldn't say anything to SIL, she's an adult, and stressed, it's probably already blown over for her. And she's right about contextual offers.

I agree with this.

She shouldn't have said anything in front of your children. However, the way you have worded things makes it look as if your son was speaking as if it is already a done deal that he will be going to this outstanding, but clearly selective, state school. For her son, he has clearly done well given all the challenges he has faced but may still miss out on this opportunity due to no fault of his own. I'm sure your nephew would also like to do more than 'fine' in his education moving forward, but he is starting from a disadvantage Vs privately educated children.

I would keep the kids out of this. Have a chat with your husband and your sister in law and sort this before the wedding. Separately to this I would be reminding your children how fortunate they are to have benefitted from the education that they have had.

Agree with everything in that post apart from this,

"And be clear with them that dropping out of the wedding now would be bad manners"

Never mind "bad manners", it is a hard no. They're kids, you tell them they are going and to think about their grandmother if nobody else.

I would still make them go and suck it up.

I would also speak to SIL about getting your Nephew a tutor. Is there anyway you and DH can split the cost or MIL to help him through this year?

You are demonstrating an unrestrained hatred of private school children on this thread and making no sense. She indirectly implied that she thought that OP's children did not deserve a place at the good school, and got very angry in direct response to personal news that OP was sharing, not general political news. She wasn't talking about the general system, she was talking about the specific plans that OP had for her children. OP's son directly asked if he was correct in his interpretation of what she was saying, that he should not be able to go to a good 6th form. SIL confirmed that this was indeed the case. DS was rightly offended by this.

I would do this after the wedding, otherwise there would be the potential for a new row.

I would also leave the kids a bit for now, but I would tell them to suck it up in a week or so. They made a commitment and to pull out now would be beyond rude and disrespectful and it would hurt their cousin.

I think this policy is horrendous for those in state education and I am struggling to see why when it was brought out that people who had children in the state system were thinking it was brilliant.

(A bit like when government stopped people putting their btl interest against tax. People who were renting thought it was a brilliant way to stick 2 fingers up to their landlord as he would be losing money but failed to understand that it would just mean rent increases)

State schools are going to give the brightest pupils a place especially at 6th form

This influx of bright young things from the private sector for 6th form is exactly what should have been expected except no one appears to have thought through this policy. It’s been pushed through because it is a popular sound bite for those that don’t look too deeply into how it would work and keeping an open mind.

We don’t have enough good state schools in the right areas that have the places available to teach the children who have always been at the school and also take on those leaving private schools.
Given schools are all about result it doesn’t seem that far fetched that a lot of pupils who are currently in the state system in a school that is mediocre or doesn’t have a stable and good teaching staff, they aren’t going to be able to compete for a place against a pupil who is straight out of an excellent private schools.

I do think your sil had a years warning that it might be difficult for her DS to get into the 6th form and even if she doesn’t believe in tutoring she could have helped her DS with his school work and doing extra stuff to make sure he kept up to date with everything and doing extra work each day so when he took his exams he would be able to get in.

I doubt that even without the VAT issue he would have hit in and I suspect that sil is looking to blame someone for what he knows deep down is a problem that could face been fixed

I would tell them that I understand why they are upset, and they are not wrong to be upset because unfortunate the discussion got personal.

But tell them also that she has a point about the system and current problem and us also upset.

But most importantly people do hold different opinions, are allowed to, and it is importing fir society that we al listen and understand.

They might consider that though SIL is v upset, she has not banned them from their roles, she is happy to accommodate them with their different views and experience : that’s family.

I think you should all (adults) apologise for MIL. Fancy even starting such a subject, which you knew to be tinder, at her lunch.

Tell your kids they have to go! If they don't you'll create a huge, embarrassing family rift, and this small misplaced angry outburst of hers will then become your fault. Kids need to toughen up a little, along the years people will say much more inappropriate stuff and being able to sensibly navigate through that is a skill that will be learnt via situations like this .