Kids not wanting to attend SILs wedding after argument

[comfortablynumber]

My sister in law is getting married in 3 weeks. My daughter is a bridesmaid and my son is an usher. However we’ve all just had a huge row and now my children don’t particularly want to go either. Looking for advice.

Both my kids are in private school. Daughter year 10, son year 11. SIL very much disapproves of our choice. She also has a child in year 11. Over a family Sunday lunch we were discussing plans for post GCSE education. We’re not pulling the kids out of school during GCSEs but the fee increase is too much long term. The plan therefore is for them to complete their GCSEs in their current school and hopefully then get a place at the excellent local state school for 6th form. The local school is C of E which is why we couldn’t get in for senior school (I have some thoughts about that, but that’s another thread!) However for 6th form current pupils just have to achieve high GCSEs and new pupils very high GCSEs. They make offers to new pupils based on school predicted grades and the number of applicants etc. Last year for example to get in for A level maths you needed to be predicted a min 7 as well as scoring highly in an exam the school set.

I thought SIL would be happy, but she lost her mind. It was triggered by a comment my son made- he said he was looking forward to going because it would be nice to go somewhere bigger, meet new people and because most of his friends from his current school were also applying. His current school is selective and high achieving. Son is predicted 7-9 in almost everything and most of his friends are the same. We’re talking a year group of 150 kids with at least 50+% now applying to the local school (previously I’d say 10-20% went after GCSEs). This will obviously massively increase the competition for the places they can offer to people who aren’t already pupils.

SIL went off. It’s not fair apparently that her son and his friends may not be offered a place because of competition from kids who had the benefit of private education. She genuinely said that there should be a sort of tier system - like university contextual offers. The thing is, that other than the great C of E school the other school options aren’t good at all (hence us going private.) Son asked SIL if she was saying that because he’d been privately educated she thought he should go somewhere not great for A levels, and she said yes! Apparently he’ll do fine anywhere. Son said he didn’t want to do “fine”- he was aiming for better, and some of the other local schools don’t even offer things like further maths or A levels other than the basics.

DH (her brother) pointed out that the levelling up of state schools she thinks will happen when private schools lose pupils would take some time and there were bound to be issues initially, especially when lots more kids look to go to state schools for A levels in a few years. He’s been pissed off with her for years and pointed out that this is what she wanted. My son and daughter are very upset that their aunt seemingly doesn’t care that much about them.

I’m more sympathetic. Nephew has struggled in the school he’s currently in (also not able to get into C of E school) with low level bullying. He’s had 3 maths teachers in 18 months and his science teachers have been dreadful. The drama teacher is currently filling in in GCSE English lit for unknown reasons and it’s not going well. It’s all been a bit shit and I know they are hugely keen for him to go somewhere different for A level. However his predicted grades aren’t brilliant and he was always borderline as to whether he’d get in based on last years offers- the additional competition may well mess things up for him. SIL has been really upset about his school for a long time which is one of the reasons she’s been so cross about us going private. Apparently the local schools would have been better if the private school and the Cof E didn’t cream off the better pupils. She’s not wrong (don’t want this to be a thread about educational policy though) However my son and daughter are I think rightfully annoyed that she’d be happy to send them there!

It all got very fraught until my MIL nearly burst into tears and people calmed down. However the children are now saying they don’t want to be in her wedding. This is my problem- do I tell them to suck it up (outfits bought, far to late in the day to drop out, not doing it would cause possibly unrecoverable family strife, they love their cousin and my SIL when she’s not upset and speaking without thinking) or do I let them chose not to? They’re young and cross and I’m know they haven’t thought through the long term ramifications.

DH says we should leave them tonight but he’s not exactly impartial. I actually like SIL (despite being often and vocally judged) and think that everyone will end up regretting not going. I also think she’s a worried mother who is seeing the possibility of her child not getting a place somewhere he really wants to go. I’d be upset -and I am upset for nephew.
What do I do?

I’d explain to your children that people have a right to think that you are playing the system and see it as unfair.

I’d also explain that if they believe themselves to be mature enough to enter into robust (and personal) debates with family, they are mature enough to accept that people have different opinions, and that doesn’t mean having a tantrum and backing out of wedding commitments etc.

He said he was looking forward to his new school. SIL talks in general terms about fairness and how she thinks they should be contextualised. Bare in mind her DS is present and probably won't get in solely because of the privilieged position of others. But she doesn't personalise it. She makes strong arguments in favour of contextualising entry. OPs DS "summarises" this as "you think I should go to a bad school?". That was offensive and mocking of her position - which despite her own child being there - she kept very general. A belief in contextualised entry - which I and many others hold - is not the same as a belief that random privileged and insensitive child in front of you "should" go to a bad school. He mocked her. She lashed out. But let's remember - she has a child too, and is speaking for him to an extent.

I agree with this.

@comfortablynumber Please do not tell your SIL that she's upset your kids so much that they are considering pulling out of the wedding. That's only going to fan the flames, regardless of whether she immediately says that she didn't mean to upset them. It's exactly the kind of comment that could take root and fester. You, your children and your DH need to be at your SIL's wedding and enjoy the day. You will regret it hugely if you don't. I hope you manage to work everything out. It sounds like you collectively have a lot of love for each other, which is a huge blessing.

Your SIL is right, but this is not a dinner table discussion and you all made it too personal. I agree your son is only 15. It’s your SIL who should have stopped this. She is the adult.

people didn't vote for their children to be shoved out of the best state schools because a bunch of parents suddenly can't afford school fees.
@Brefugee you only need to read any MN thread about VAT on private schools to know that’s exactly what people voted for. Or perhaps they put their fingers in the ears and said “la la la not listening!” when report after report predicted this would happen.

I'm not a fan of weddings, or ILs, or private schools for that matter, but the idea that you would even let your children discuss or consider the possibility of boycotting the wedding is unfathomable to me. It was a row. They happen. People say things in the heat of the moment that come out wrong. There are macro-issues in this particular situation that the kids aren't necessarily aware of. Your SIL is family. You all love/like/care about each other. If the kids have learned from somewhere that rows have to be followed by nuclear reactions, then now is the time to disabuse them of that idea.

Yes, I think they did vote for that. They voted Labour, they have Labour's policies and now their kids are being shoved out as a direct result of those policies.

They might not have wanted that, but it was a very easy consequence to foresee and they did vote for it.

"Opinionated little madam?" Weirdly mysoginistic (and old fashioned!) langauge. She's old enough to get married and have a child in secondary school, she's not that young...
You don't have to agree with her views (I don't either) bit it's a bit 1920s to think of "opinionated" as an insult for a woman?

I also dont see why it would be a threat Not attending the wedding probably would cause long term family issues (not least to people who don't deserve it like MIL and brides son/ops nephew, which is why I would recommend going) but it's hardly going to ruin her wedding or be a huge punishment? It's more she'll take it as a slight and the argument will continue but her day won't be ruined by their absence.

You should've been educating your son on privilege. I will often talk to my 14 year old about how lucky & privileged he is. id be horrified if he thought he could behave the way your son did. Clearly your private school haven't taught them much about the real world either.

Wow. He is 15. And you are only just talking to him now about the concept of a fair society? And his school- never once touched on this? Yes, absolutely this should be taught much earlier than 15. I'm guessing school did. But son preferred to ignore or not listen. Just absolutely wow.

No wonder your son's argument was so entitled and not an inkling of empathy, humility- all about him and his grades and what works best for him. Me me me me me.

This isnt necessarily a function of private schooling. This is attitudinal.

Your kids are children. Maybe discuss the argument but you should be telling them that of course we are going to the wedding. It would hurt a lot of people's feelings. Don't ask your sil if she wants them to come, that is very passive aggressive.

Not everything has it be discussed with everyone all the time. Tell your kids, yes the system is unfair, you are quite lucky and your sil was frustrated with the system and worried for her own child. Privately you can acknowledge she should have been more tactful to your kids. But honestly it should all be forgotten about.

Your kids will get a wake up call in the workplace/uni if they can't see their privilege.

I did, yes, my children don't. I don't think it's the best use of money for them, and as we're on average income, we'd have to very much cut other costs to the bone to afford it. They also have the right profile to be successful at state school. My parents moved us to private school part way through our education because we had special educational needs that the state system wasn't able to meet, as do many parents. They couldn't have afforded 20% extra so I'm not sure what they would have done- perhaps they would have homeschooled or perhaps we'd have gone to state school and used a lot of resources.

I'm not sure what dimension you think I'm missing. If parents can't afford the extra 20%, they will end up in other schools. That's a basic fact. Many of them will have good grades, a good work ethic and live in nice areas, so they will be able to get places at good schools. Unless you want to bring in separate legislation to mandate that anyone having leaving private education must go to an underperforming school, what do you want?

This is a classic “nobody is the asshole” post. Just two people coming at an issue with opposite perspectives. It’s a great opportunity to speak with your children about being aware of their privilege and remembering who they are speaking to. Your son didn’t say anything wrong but it’s no surprise it’s a sensitive subject for SIL (and horrifying for her to realise the competition for places was going to be SO much tougher than in any other year).

I would let everyone calm down and then suggest that your family should approach her to apologise - not for being wrong or unkind but just speaking thoughtlessly. And everyone goes to the wedding as planned.

Your privileged son sounds like a bit of a wind up merchant to be honest - continuing to fan the flames. Perhaps it’s time to teach him some empathy and tell him to suck it up and attend the wedding for the sake of family harmony.

i never think MN is that representative, and i didn't read the threads because a) my DCs are all grown up and b) I'm not in uk (am starting to regret my labour vote though, especially now all this is becoming clear to me)

But again: that wasn't people's intention in voting for this, is what i feel. I think they weren't thinking much at all beyond "get the tories out" tbh.

People can have opinions even if they're completely opposite to ones own.
I believe she's talking nonsense. It's a prime empirical example of what is going to happen with Labours bizarre private school funding plans.
The bright children will still be bright the outcomes for those not so bright will be the same. Competition for limited places will be keen.
Unintended consequences and all that.....

I'd just let it drift and attend the wedding. Just don't bring it up again.

ah OK, care to help me at all?

I think if the relationship has previously been good and sounds like it has. You should point out to your kids that SIL didn’t say things as she doesn’t care for them. She said it as she’s obviously stressed and worried for her own child’s education. Also there is likely a degree of both jealousy and guilt that nephew hasn’t had the same privilege of a private education.

The biggest thing I’d stress is (if true) that she loves and cares about them. While people say things in the heat of the moment that can be unkind you don’t automatically cut them out of your life. A wedding is a big life event. She chose to have them be a part of that and to not go could be incredibly upsetting to her and possibly damage their relationship forever. Which seems extreme fora disagreement over a sensitive topic that so far hasn’t actually changed anyone’s life.

Politics, religion, private education, are just 3 topics i avoid with certain family members

sorry but that's just completely incorrect. it wouldn't be legal for a start. where on earth do you get the info to make this stuff up?

It might be worth talking about perspective, @comfortablynumber -

“In 5 years will you still be hurt about this conversation? Because in 5 years Auntie Sarah will still remember you pulled out of her wedding at the last minute because of an argument.
“A wedding day is memories forever. I don’t think a difference in opinion is worth remembering for that long. We can love people and also disagree with them.”

She has a point and your children need to understand their privileges and have some empathy to their cousins struggles.

Their aunt clearly doesn't want them not to succeed but understand from her point of view how much of a struggle it is for those not blessed with the luxury of private education.

Debate isn't personal and not going to a wedding because their feelings were hurt is very immature especially for yr10/11 students.

My child goes to grammar and he understands how lucky he is. We are on a low income on a rough estate and to be given a high level of education is very much appreciated, I always tell him how lucky he is, so he doesn't become entitled and snobby.

As a parent you should be more proactive in letting them know how lucky they are.

I think they should go and take their roles as agreed previously

I can completely understand why they are upset at her attitude but I can also see that she is very worried about her son and probably with wedding and lots on the stress has got to her and she has lashed out without thinking clearly qt what effect her harsh words would have

It's her wedding - a special family day - as you indicated you all got on before and you all like each other then you should all go and be happy for her on her wedding day

I think you are right to recognise that you have a fairly urgent piece of work to educate your children on their privilege. Your SIL has behaved badly but I have a lot of sympathy for the principle of her position.

You might also remember that, although you clearly have financial reasons for your plans, sending your children private to year 11 and then sending them to an excellent selective state sixth form is exactly what a person who wants to game the university admissions system might do. I don’t think that this is what you are consciously doing but many, many people do precisely this and you and your children may find that assumptions are made about them as a result.

@Noname112 Also there is likely a degree of both jealousy and guilt that nephew hasn’t had the same privilege of a private education. This may compound their arrogance. Why jealousy and guilt? There's no sensible reason to think SIL has either. Assuming this is arrogance itself.