Kids not wanting to attend SILs wedding after argument

[comfortablynumber]

My sister in law is getting married in 3 weeks. My daughter is a bridesmaid and my son is an usher. However we’ve all just had a huge row and now my children don’t particularly want to go either. Looking for advice.

Both my kids are in private school. Daughter year 10, son year 11. SIL very much disapproves of our choice. She also has a child in year 11. Over a family Sunday lunch we were discussing plans for post GCSE education. We’re not pulling the kids out of school during GCSEs but the fee increase is too much long term. The plan therefore is for them to complete their GCSEs in their current school and hopefully then get a place at the excellent local state school for 6th form. The local school is C of E which is why we couldn’t get in for senior school (I have some thoughts about that, but that’s another thread!) However for 6th form current pupils just have to achieve high GCSEs and new pupils very high GCSEs. They make offers to new pupils based on school predicted grades and the number of applicants etc. Last year for example to get in for A level maths you needed to be predicted a min 7 as well as scoring highly in an exam the school set.

I thought SIL would be happy, but she lost her mind. It was triggered by a comment my son made- he said he was looking forward to going because it would be nice to go somewhere bigger, meet new people and because most of his friends from his current school were also applying. His current school is selective and high achieving. Son is predicted 7-9 in almost everything and most of his friends are the same. We’re talking a year group of 150 kids with at least 50+% now applying to the local school (previously I’d say 10-20% went after GCSEs). This will obviously massively increase the competition for the places they can offer to people who aren’t already pupils.

SIL went off. It’s not fair apparently that her son and his friends may not be offered a place because of competition from kids who had the benefit of private education. She genuinely said that there should be a sort of tier system - like university contextual offers. The thing is, that other than the great C of E school the other school options aren’t good at all (hence us going private.) Son asked SIL if she was saying that because he’d been privately educated she thought he should go somewhere not great for A levels, and she said yes! Apparently he’ll do fine anywhere. Son said he didn’t want to do “fine”- he was aiming for better, and some of the other local schools don’t even offer things like further maths or A levels other than the basics.

DH (her brother) pointed out that the levelling up of state schools she thinks will happen when private schools lose pupils would take some time and there were bound to be issues initially, especially when lots more kids look to go to state schools for A levels in a few years. He’s been pissed off with her for years and pointed out that this is what she wanted. My son and daughter are very upset that their aunt seemingly doesn’t care that much about them.

I’m more sympathetic. Nephew has struggled in the school he’s currently in (also not able to get into C of E school) with low level bullying. He’s had 3 maths teachers in 18 months and his science teachers have been dreadful. The drama teacher is currently filling in in GCSE English lit for unknown reasons and it’s not going well. It’s all been a bit shit and I know they are hugely keen for him to go somewhere different for A level. However his predicted grades aren’t brilliant and he was always borderline as to whether he’d get in based on last years offers- the additional competition may well mess things up for him. SIL has been really upset about his school for a long time which is one of the reasons she’s been so cross about us going private. Apparently the local schools would have been better if the private school and the Cof E didn’t cream off the better pupils. She’s not wrong (don’t want this to be a thread about educational policy though) However my son and daughter are I think rightfully annoyed that she’d be happy to send them there!

It all got very fraught until my MIL nearly burst into tears and people calmed down. However the children are now saying they don’t want to be in her wedding. This is my problem- do I tell them to suck it up (outfits bought, far to late in the day to drop out, not doing it would cause possibly unrecoverable family strife, they love their cousin and my SIL when she’s not upset and speaking without thinking) or do I let them chose not to? They’re young and cross and I’m know they haven’t thought through the long term ramifications.

DH says we should leave them tonight but he’s not exactly impartial. I actually like SIL (despite being often and vocally judged) and think that everyone will end up regretting not going. I also think she’s a worried mother who is seeing the possibility of her child not getting a place somewhere he really wants to go. I’d be upset -and I am upset for nephew.
What do I do?

My point wasn’t regarding what you should or shouldn’t do, my point was that you can’t make someone do something if they feel strongly enough about not doing it.

The aunt very clearly instigated it by lashing out at an innocuous comment the son made about looking forward to his new school. He didn’t ’bait her’. She chose to lash out and make it about her own issues, and she’s now choosing not to extend an apology in an attempt to resolve things. The kids aren’t responsible for sucking it up because it best suits the aunt, or indeed family harmony, and tbh ‘family can treat you however they like but if you react you’re the problem, because faaamily’ is a shitty lesson to teach.

Has everyone forgot that within this exchange there is also OPs daughter (who is also privately educated), who doesn't seem to have been an active participant in the exchange (according to the OP's posts) yet she has been cited as being upset by the whole exchange to the extent that she also no longer wishes to participate in the wedding?
That would suggest that what the aunt said was pretty awful (in the 14 & 15yr olds opinions). Sure OP can talk to her children and minimise/explain their aunt's behaviour and hopefully the children can be bigger people in the whole situation and rub along for the sake of the day but behind the scenes, the relationship is damaged regardless. How damaged depends on exactly what happened/what was said. From the OP's posts however, I do feel that the aunt does have an apology of her own to make.

The OP has literally admitted herself he is ignorant to his privilege. How about you get off your soapbox and stop making stuff up to fit your own agenda ?

If your children perform well you cant even imagine how stressful it is to have a child who struggles. The stress and pressure is enormous on every level non stop, so with a wedding on top I will cut your SIL slack and tell children to go and be nice and polite as life is not so simple. Of course SIL cares about them but she worries about her own child and cares about her child more and she is 100% right: with the background he has, your son will succeed at any 6th form whereas hers not. Of course she couldn’t explain this openly it’s something you should do quietly at home.
I remember how unfair I was to one of my cousins who struggled at school (Im sure now he has dyslexia). As a high performing student I couldn’t understand his struggles at all and was very judgy with my direct teenage comments. Now when I’m on the other side - a parent of a struggling child, I’m much more understanding and careful with my comments.

You first.

“Even if it is a case of the former, you don’t educate people by ranting at them. If anything by doing so you make it far more likely that you’ll alienate them.”

I asked a question, I did not make a statement that he isn’t ignorant. It may very well be the case that he is, but making a comment about looking forward to his new school isn’t a controversial or ignorant statement that necessitates and justifies the aunt ‘going off’.

The kids aren’t responsible for sucking it up because it best suits the aunt, or indeed family harmony, and tbh ‘family can treat you however they like but if you react you’re the problem, because faaamily’ is a shitty lesson to teach.

I never said they were responsible, but if we all stuck 100% to our own moral compass, it'd be a lonely world. Sometimes we do stuff we don't want, and sometimes other people do stuff they don't want. - Read again what I wrote, you can reason with a 15-year-old and have an adult conversation with him and if after they still do not want to listen that's when you have to play hardball, start removing privileges if you need to.

Sometimes, we must make adult decisions for our children, regardless of whether they agree. If you're teaching your kids 'me me me and no one else matters, then that is a pretty shitty lesson also.

I'll be honest. If this were our family mix, i.e., we all get together on Sunday. There are four different families, ages 70-1, and there are 15 of us every week. We all have very different social backgrounds. This would be a difference of opinion, with some people realising they are better off than others, be that financial, job security, houses, etc. Sadly, we are all dealt different cards in life. You play the hand you are dealt or reshuffle.

The reshuffle of not attending a wedding sounds like a bad deal; play your hand, suck it up, deal with it, move on.

To be a right bastard, couldn't the wedding money have been better spent on her son's final year of education at a private school to afford him the privileges this brings?

I've no idea how much they are spending on the wedding fyi, could be 5k could be 25k

Yes, ‘sucking it up’ is ultimately what is meant, especially when the aunt hasn’t even bothered to apologize.

Again, while you can ask a 14 and 15 year old to acquiesce to your wishes, it isn’t something they can be made to do if they feel that strongly about not doing it.

What is the compromise here exactly? Giving the aunt exactly what she wants isn’t a compromise, it’s rolling over. Personally, not rolling over when people treat me badly, family or not, has only ever served me well in life. A lesson my parents taught me, funnily enough. Served them very well too.

@InterIgnis I couldn't agree more.

As for what a pp said:
"Read again what I wrote, you can reason with a 15-year-old and have an adult conversation with him and if after they still do not want to listen that's when you have to play hardball, start removing privileges if you need to."

Would anyone really risk destroying/damaging their relationship with their children playing "hardball" because SIL is being an arse? For me, it's not the hill I'd die on. I'd be having a chat with SIL and seeking compromise from EVERYONE. Put the ball in her court too.

You may have asked a question in your last reply but you’ve certainly made your feelings clear throughout the thread. I can only assume you also live a privileged life with little thought outside your own sphere. I’m not engaging with you now as you’re clearly just here to argue with practically everyone 🤦‍♀️

Making my opinions clear on a forum where we’re invited to give opinions? What a wild concept.

Thinking outside of your own sphere is quite distinct from believing you’re obliged to bear the brunt of others’ resentments because you inhabit said sphere.

Thinking outside of her own sphere, ironically, is something the aunt could have done rather than make a benign comment about looking forward to a new school, about her own issues.

I think you should talk to your kids to get them to understand her point of view. They have been privileged and they need to be able to acknowledge that and to empathise with their cousin who hasn't had the advantages they have had.

I'd hardly say they, on either side, have been treated badly; a storm in a teacup, it's a nothing conversation; kids sound like normal kids, and aunt sounds like a normal mom, wanting the best for her kids, i don't agree with what she, the SIL, said, no reason the OP's kids should feel or be made to feel like they should go to a different school because they had the privilege of private education. That is clearly mental. Do I agree with the sentiment behind it? A little bit.

As for rolling over, who said they are rolling over? No one. I don't hear of an ultimate from the SIL; it's a minor falling out. Her children are blowing up into something huge because they lack the emotional maturity and reasoning skills- again because they are 15.

As parents, we sometimes make decisions for our children that they may not always agree with. I'd bet good money that your parents didn't 'roll over' with you when they disagreed with you, and as parents, they made you do stuff you didn't want to. Who rolled over?

It's not an innocuous comment is it though..

HE thinks it's innocuous because his privilege is making him absolutely ignorant to what his words implied, but we all know full well that he isn't considering her son at all when he is inadvertently blathering on about how him and his mates are now going to take all the places from the plebs that haven't benefitted from a private education.

It's not really his fault, he's young and immature, and he obviously didn't put two and two together, so instead of understanding her point of view, he took it as a personal attack (which it wasn't) then he escalated it by goading her into a response which, while fundamentally true has been taken out of context.

Son asked SIL if she was saying that because he’d been privately educated she thought he should go somewhere not great for A levels, and she said yes!

This is the question he asked her, the answer is yes, because the aunt believes that everyone should be given a fair shot and that means some privately educated kids (like him) will end up somewhere not great, and some state children (like hers) should be given the chance at a better education, not just cast aside.

He is full of indignation about that, because he can't see it from any point of view but his own and has chosen to take her words as a personal attack. She could have easily said to him in response, 'okay, so you think my child should go somewhere 'no great' because you and your friends, who have benefitted from a private education, are more entitled to it then he is' .. and guess what, his answer would have to be "yes" too, because that is what he thinks.

She was wrong to get so angry at his sense of entitlement, and he was wrong to escalate it and take it personally, they should both apologise and there should be no boycotting of anything.. people can disagree on topics without cutting them out of your life, especially over something he is woefully, and ironically, uneducated about.

No, ‘going off’ on someone for making a benign comment is treating them badly. Failing to apologize is treating them badly. The person blowing it up is the person that instigated it in the first place. If she wants to make amends it’s on her to reach out and apologize. She doesn’t get to snap at someone then dictate how they feel about and respond to it.

At 14 and 15 my parents didn’t ‘make’ me do anything if I felt strongly enough about not doing it. They also didn’t consider ‘keeping the peace’ to be the highest of virtues, and didn’t expect it of me if treated badly. They would and did have my back in such situations. ‘Family’ isn’t an excuse to treat people however you like, and maintaining relationships with those that for some reason think it is, isn’t something that’s inherently worth aspiring to.

She told him she thinks he should be disadvantaged because of his privilege. Not even that he should have less of a chance of going to a better school, but that he shouldn’t be able to go to a better school. She personalized it, after deciding that him saying ‘I’m looking forward to going to my new school’ an invitation to expound on her political opinions. It wasn’t.

Why would his answer be ‘yes’? Wanting better for himself isn’t the same thing as wishing ill for another. Why even pit them against one another in the first place? He wasn’t wrong to react as he did, especially as she hasn’t even bothered to apologize to him.

What is entitled is thinking you can lash out at something and not get a negative response as a result. It’s entitled to think that your personal situation means that others are obliged to make allowances for you no matter how you treat them, and that they’re obliged to give you what you want.

No she didn't, this is what happened:

SIL went off. It’s not fair apparently that her son and his friends may not be offered a place because of competition from kids who had the benefit of private education. She genuinely said that there should be a sort of tier system - like university contextual offers.

That isn't at all the same as saying he should personally be disadvantaged, he has chosen to take it that way.

“Son asked SIL if she was saying that because he’d been privately educated she thought he should go somewhere not great for A levels, and she said yes!”

Your SiL has a point. You've bought advantage for your DC because the State schools weren't good enough presumably.

But now you can't afford the school fees so you're going back to the now "excellent" 6th form?

Your SiL really has a point, and it's saying something about you that you can't see it.

YOu should have just backed out from the argument gracefully.

She said yes, because that is what it would mean with a fairer system, he loaded that question which basically asked if she would pick him to have that place or her son, she said she's pick her son because OPs son has already had a great education and could do well anywhere, where as her son would struggle because he hasn't had the privilege OPs son has.

He doesn't realise what he has asked her or understood her response and has chosen to take it that she 'seemingly doesn't care about him', instead of realising that she had no choice but to answer yes and it's got nothing to do with him personally.. she couldn't exactly say "I think it should be a fairer system but of course I think YOU should be let in automatically" can she? She doesn't believe that, so why would she say that?

He made it personal when he made it about him, rather than a general complaint about the unfairness of it all which is what her rant was about in the first place, and in fairness, a lot of people on here and even OP herself agrees with what she is saying, she is not wrong to rage against the unfairness of it, but it is not anyone's fault personally and shouldn't be used to start a family rift.

SIL was wrong to get so angry about it, but she's not wrong to feel the way she does.

However for 6th form current pupils just have to achieve high GCSEs and new pupils very high GCSEs.

Just to digress for a second, and apologies if I'm out of date (quite possible as I haven't worked in education for a number of years), but this used not to be allowed.

Schools could set whatever minimum standards they wanted for entry into Sixth Form – 8 x A* if they wanted – but they weren't allowed to have different requirements for pupils already at the school and pupils applying from other schools. At one point I'm pretty sure that was actually illegal. Has it all changed? Just wondered…

Yeah, you can’t ‘go off’ at someone in response to them saying ‘I’m looking forward to going to my new school’ then complain that they may just take it personally or think badly of you for it.

She said, definitively, that he shouldn’t be able to go to a better school. She could have declined to answer the question as he posed it. She could have said ‘I believe you should have the opportunity to do so’. She could also have decided not to make someone’s statement about themselves about her own issues and resentments. If family harmony is so very important she could have just said ‘happy to hear you’re doing well’. It was neither the time nor place to offload her feelings about private schools on a 15 year old.

Even if OP successfully coerces her children into taking part in the wedding, that they think well of their aunt (or indeed their mother for making them) is not something they can be made to do. Any family rift that results is a result of her own actions.

This is very true!

Again, I didn't say she should dictate how the OP's children should feel; she probably has zero idea how they feel because it wasn't left to conclude; it's all been brushed aside. Don't put words in my mouth.

Nothing I've read suggests that one side has been treated badly, a difference of opinions on a normal discussion. If you think this is being treated badly, then I don't hold out much hope, as you'll never see it for what it is: a mom protecting her own and a son happy about moving to a new school. Both of those things can be right and wrong for many reasons.

Still, if you think falling out over something such as what has been described, you must only socialise with your own caste whereby the very nature, you've all had the same privileges and won't understand one side of the argument that is being put forward, or worse you won't have been taught the difference.

SIL could have approached it better, and I do not think anyone should be disadvantaged by their upbringing, privileged or not. Still, the very same thing will now happen to her son by the influx of those who have already been afforded a better education.

It's two sides of the same coin.

Funny that, because I’ve read plenty to suggest the SIL treated her nephew badly. Unless you think ‘going off’ on someone for saying they’re looking forward to going to their new school, and using it as an opportunity to air your own resentments, is reasonable behavior, in which case I am more than happy to not share the same perspective as you.

She wasn’t sticking up for her son because OP’s son made no attack on him.

Yes, I think it’s very reasonable to want little to nothing to do with someone that not only ‘goes off’, but does not even bothering to apologize after the fact. Can highly recommend it as a course of action, actually. Do not conflate understanding someone’s stance with being willing to accept someone lashing out at you because of it. One has nothing to do with the other.