Kids not wanting to attend SILs wedding after argument

[comfortablynumber]

My sister in law is getting married in 3 weeks. My daughter is a bridesmaid and my son is an usher. However we’ve all just had a huge row and now my children don’t particularly want to go either. Looking for advice.

Both my kids are in private school. Daughter year 10, son year 11. SIL very much disapproves of our choice. She also has a child in year 11. Over a family Sunday lunch we were discussing plans for post GCSE education. We’re not pulling the kids out of school during GCSEs but the fee increase is too much long term. The plan therefore is for them to complete their GCSEs in their current school and hopefully then get a place at the excellent local state school for 6th form. The local school is C of E which is why we couldn’t get in for senior school (I have some thoughts about that, but that’s another thread!) However for 6th form current pupils just have to achieve high GCSEs and new pupils very high GCSEs. They make offers to new pupils based on school predicted grades and the number of applicants etc. Last year for example to get in for A level maths you needed to be predicted a min 7 as well as scoring highly in an exam the school set.

I thought SIL would be happy, but she lost her mind. It was triggered by a comment my son made- he said he was looking forward to going because it would be nice to go somewhere bigger, meet new people and because most of his friends from his current school were also applying. His current school is selective and high achieving. Son is predicted 7-9 in almost everything and most of his friends are the same. We’re talking a year group of 150 kids with at least 50+% now applying to the local school (previously I’d say 10-20% went after GCSEs). This will obviously massively increase the competition for the places they can offer to people who aren’t already pupils.

SIL went off. It’s not fair apparently that her son and his friends may not be offered a place because of competition from kids who had the benefit of private education. She genuinely said that there should be a sort of tier system - like university contextual offers. The thing is, that other than the great C of E school the other school options aren’t good at all (hence us going private.) Son asked SIL if she was saying that because he’d been privately educated she thought he should go somewhere not great for A levels, and she said yes! Apparently he’ll do fine anywhere. Son said he didn’t want to do “fine”- he was aiming for better, and some of the other local schools don’t even offer things like further maths or A levels other than the basics.

DH (her brother) pointed out that the levelling up of state schools she thinks will happen when private schools lose pupils would take some time and there were bound to be issues initially, especially when lots more kids look to go to state schools for A levels in a few years. He’s been pissed off with her for years and pointed out that this is what she wanted. My son and daughter are very upset that their aunt seemingly doesn’t care that much about them.

I’m more sympathetic. Nephew has struggled in the school he’s currently in (also not able to get into C of E school) with low level bullying. He’s had 3 maths teachers in 18 months and his science teachers have been dreadful. The drama teacher is currently filling in in GCSE English lit for unknown reasons and it’s not going well. It’s all been a bit shit and I know they are hugely keen for him to go somewhere different for A level. However his predicted grades aren’t brilliant and he was always borderline as to whether he’d get in based on last years offers- the additional competition may well mess things up for him. SIL has been really upset about his school for a long time which is one of the reasons she’s been so cross about us going private. Apparently the local schools would have been better if the private school and the Cof E didn’t cream off the better pupils. She’s not wrong (don’t want this to be a thread about educational policy though) However my son and daughter are I think rightfully annoyed that she’d be happy to send them there!

It all got very fraught until my MIL nearly burst into tears and people calmed down. However the children are now saying they don’t want to be in her wedding. This is my problem- do I tell them to suck it up (outfits bought, far to late in the day to drop out, not doing it would cause possibly unrecoverable family strife, they love their cousin and my SIL when she’s not upset and speaking without thinking) or do I let them chose not to? They’re young and cross and I’m know they haven’t thought through the long term ramifications.

DH says we should leave them tonight but he’s not exactly impartial. I actually like SIL (despite being often and vocally judged) and think that everyone will end up regretting not going. I also think she’s a worried mother who is seeing the possibility of her child not getting a place somewhere he really wants to go. I’d be upset -and I am upset for nephew.
What do I do?

I can’t see how you and your children will enjoy the wedding now-surely it’s best to cancel

Not at all - turn up with a smile, everyone hugs and the celebrations continue

I see it as a difference of opinion; she has not articulated it well. You want to treat the child as an adult by letting him make his own choice, but you don't want him spoken to as an adult?

And she was sticking up for her son; she was sticking up for his education. I'll admit not in the best way. After all, she is an adult and should have known better, but I don't remember saying he was attacking her son?

A life without disagreement or conflicting interests is a fantasy. The real question is: how do we find a balanced approach? I don't believe in letting a teenager make such a significant decision alone. As a parent, I'm ready to have a frank discussion with my children and their SIL, even if it means putting our disagreements aside.

Not attending a wedding would not be an option; as a parent, you either need to say this is happening or mediate between the two.

‘I’m looking forward to going to my new school’ is not something she needed to offer an opinion on. It wasn’t a controversial statement, and it wasn’t inviting debate. What she chose to do isn’t ’speaking to him like an adult’ as an adult saying the same wouldn’t be inviting debate either. What she chose to do was take a benign statement and use it as an excuse to vent her resentments.

Again, the son didn’t attack his cousin’s education. All he said was ‘I’m looking forward to going to my new school’ - which isn’t making a comment on his cousin at all.

Who said anything about a life without conflict or disagreement? I said I won’t accept being expected to apologize for my privilege, or tolerate ill treatment due to any resentment of it. And I don’t. Like I said, that’s served me very well in life, so I’m not of the opinion that you must accept either lest you want life be miserable (actually, feeling you must accept the aforementioned seems to me to be surefire way to be miserable). That also shouldn’t be conflated with ‘expecting a life without disagreement or conflicting interests’, given that they too are entirely different things.

Not going to the wedding is absolutely an option if they feel that strongly about it, regardless of whether you want to acknowledge that fact. Besides, it doesn’t seem like OP’s DH shares OP’s opinion that they should be made to go. She’s the only one out of the four of them that is sympathetic to her SIL and inclined to think they should just suck it up.

Oh op that’s awful of her, and shaming your children is really not on.

I would be so conflicted, as I am constantly working on not raising people pleasers. So the idea of going to the wedding is very tricky. Why should they?

In your place dh needs to speak to sil, and she needs to apologise. It’s the only thing that will fix this.

Dh should say he doesn’t want her wedding ruined by the atmosphere, it’s likely going to overshadow her day otherwise, she has really hurt the children’s feelings and they no longer wish to attend is understandable. It is going to be very awkward!

I would make this sils problem. She can do the right thing and apologise, or she doesn’t and the decision is made for you.

If sil cares for your children at all, she will want to make amends. I can’t think she feels great about this. Obviously your children must be encouraged to be gracious, and accept her apology and play their part.

For me, this is about self respect and boundaries, and we want children to learn from experience, and value themselves enough to know that it’s not okay for people to treat them badly. Whoever they are.

Quite apart from anything, I genuinely don’t think you can all pretend it’s okay on the day it’s going to feel very fake and insincere, it will overshadow the whole wedding potentially.

Sil was out of order, she needs to find a way to fix this.

Clearing the air would be best, but SIL needs to realise that her tactless comments have caused niece and nephew distress, to the extent of withdrawing from her wedding. She needs to apologise. If she refuses to, then fine - but she will be short of a bridesmaid and an usher.

Don’t we teach our kids that we can all have differences of opinion and still rub along together? Conflicts exist in all walks of life, including families. Only your kids can decide if it is worth creating a bigger divide over, or whether they can say to themselves: “We don’t agree with her or with how she expressed her opinion, but she is still family and we can still have a good time at the wedding.”
Was it a massive bust up? Worth all sitting down together and working out a way to respect one another’s views and opinions without letting heat get in the way?

Rubbing along is code for people pleasing!

Yes we should be resolving conflict, but sil had caused the rupture, it really is on her to repair the damage. She is the adult, the onus is on her to say she overstepped and didn’t mean to upset them. Most conflicts are resolved by people taking responsibility, apologising if necessary and repairing relationships.

Resolving conflict shouldn’t be about pretence, burying the tricky bits and letting resentment fester.

Bloody hell, if i didnt 'rub along' with half my family, I'd never see them. There have been loads of disagreements and conflicts over the years, you learn to live with them rather than cut all ties. And no-one needs to disagree in this scenario.

It’s not, it’s a straightforward approach to dealing with conflict in life. There are some things of course that are a red line, I’m just not sure this is one of them. Yes SIL has caused the rupture and I don’t think anyone is saying that this shouldn’t be addressed, my point is that sometimes both sides need to come together to resolve the conflict, rather than wait for one side to initiate it. I’m involved in conflict resolution via work and the crux of it is always to look for the middle ground, ideally facilitated by someone without skin in the game.

You added more after I had posted, so to add to my own, no one said anything about burying or pretending, I said quite the opposite. Meet it head on, find the middle ground (ideally without pointing fingers) - you can respect someone’s right to an opinion without respecting the actual opinion. There are plenty of things I have had to meet the middle with in my life, including with loved ones, it’s called compromise. Even when I have been annoyed or have disagreed.

I would be so conflicted, as I am constantly working on not raising people pleasers. So the idea of going to the wedding is very tricky. Why should they?
In your place dh needs to speak to sil, and she needs to apologise.

Many people these days are working on not raising "people pleasers" but it sometimes looks as if people in general are becoming more self focussed, rude and inconsiderate.
Where's the line?
Obviously we don't want to raise people who can't speak up for themselves and tolerate abuse, but do we want people who get on their high horse every time someone says something they don't like and doesn't consider the wider effects?
How do you define people pleasing and what's the difference between people pleasing and consideration of others?
I understand people pleasing as doing things for other people that you don't want to do in the hope they will like you. I don't think I would define going to the wedding as people pleasing, just considering everyone involved.
Perhaps it would be a good idea to try to clear the air before the wedding.
I would be interested in people's thoughts about what they think people pleasing is.

People pleasing in this instance would be forcing the children to go without an apology from sil, because then you are expecting them to perform and pretend on the wedding day that nothing is wrong, it’s unethical and poor parenting. The children are then put in an awful position.

Yes it should be discussed fully, and sil needs to acknowledge that she has hurt the children’s feelings, she is entitled to her opinion of course, but honestly humiliating them in that way is a huge overstep.

Surely she must have already called and apologised. Hopefully,

I think the red line will differ for everyone. This was a row that was big enough to cause mil, a grown woman, to cry. So this was not a minor disagreement.

Whilst meeting in the middle and understanding different views is sometimes appropriate, in this case an apology would be better. Some ownership. The children were only answering the questions they were asked - it was innocent enough. I would be very unhappy if someone treated my child this way,

Humiliating them????
Personally I think that's a bit dramatic given the nature of the argument.
To me it's all out of proportion.
If I was OP I would try talking to SIL and telling her that the kids were upset and took it personally and I would be talking to the children about where she was coming from.
It all sounds too trivial to cause a big rift and hurt the feelings of other members of the family who had nothing to do with it.

It is humiliating to be told you shouldn’t be allowed to apply for a sixth form, and berated for attempting to. The children clearly feel very upset, as does ops dh - this was not a minor disagreement. I don’t think it’s okay and I am on team dh on this.

MIL was starting to cry because there was an uncomfortable conflict-she'll be crying a lot more if it spills over into the wedding.
The cousin who the kids like is also going to be upset.
This may be SIL's fault but I still would encourage them strongly to go.

Well of course red lines are different for different people, again that was my point. In the same way people will cry at different situations, I know someone very close to me who cries at the drop of a hat, doesn’t mean that the situation warrants it, it’s how they are wired.

You can meet in the middle and there still will be an apology/apologies, in fact that is often what happens with conflict resolution. The two aren’t mutually exclusive in any way. It’s often stubbornness over perceived slights that lets resentment fester. You all need to come to the table willing to resolve things. If one side won’t do that then there can be no resolution.

Nothing hypocritical about voting Labour (as the party is today anyway) whilst sending your children to Private School. In fact, supporting a party that has a policy that will cost you money is basically socialism, isn't it?

@comfortablynumber
You say in your OP - "I actually like SIL (despite being often and vocally judged)".
I think that maybe points to some people pleasing tendencies in you?
For yourself to think about that - but I would give it some thought, before you cajol your children into just turning the other cheek.

For all you know they might not have liked seeing their mother be "often and vocally judged" by their dad's sister, and this has been the final straw ....

Actually here your DH - her own brother, who's "been pissed off with her for years" might be a better judge of character / have SIL's measure, and you should follow his lead.

Your children are old enough to decide for themselves if they will go to the wedding. Your sil is old enough to apologise if she wants to clear the air.

Dh needs to advocate for his children. This could easily be cleared up with a good chat and some goodwill, but I would not force them to attend a wedding if things stay as they are. It would be unbearably awkward and strained. In reality they might well feel very resentful of you for over riding them like this.

Sil whilst entitled to her opinions should not be allowed to ride roughshod over your children like this, just because she is concerned about school places. She is misdirecting her anger and finding an easy target in your children.

I personally wouldn’t want this kind of hostility aimed at my young teens, and would be reducing contact as well as reconsidering the wedding unless she was able to make amends.

Where’s the line? Wherever the individual in question decides it is, I imagine.

For me, someone taking an innocuous statement I made about looking forward to a school to ‘go off’ about their resentment of my education and telling me that I shouldn’t be allowed to go to a better school is a line, especially if no apology was forthcoming. Doing that, then expecting me to put myself out and do something for them on their wedding, I would consider laughable. You speak of consideration, yet it’s seems to be reserved exclusively for the SIL. Why is anger that she can’t afford private school while her brother’s family can something her niece and nephew need to compensate for by way of accepting being on the receiving end of that anger? She’s entitled to her feelings, but she isn’t entitled to lash out at others because of them. She’s responsible for choosing to do so, as she is responsible for the consequences.

OP does seem to want SIL to like her, imo. She seems to fear the ramifications of upsetting her in laws more than she does those of upsetting her own children and husband.

^ this

Sometimes having little or nothing to do with someone who treats you badly is a resolution. A desired one, in fact.

The SIL isn’t trying to meet in the middle, is she?

Of sorts and arguably an unsatisfactory one, as it doesn’t directly address the situation at hand as outlined in the OP. We don’t know if SIL would meet in the middle because it hasn’t been any indication of everyone getting around a table. Meeting in the middle doesn’t mean making the first move.

Why is it unsatisfactory one? Why is having a relationship with someone that treats you badly an outcome that should be aspired to? That’s an alien mindset to me.

The OP and her DH have been dealing with shitty comments from the SIL for years, and now she’s aiming them at their children. I’m not sure why a ‘family rift’, or specifically one that means they don’t have the deal with the SIL, is to be considered oh so terrible an outcome. Seems ideal to me.

The SIL is a grown ass adult that saw fit to vent her spleen at a 15 year old. She sure as shit can make the first move if she’s so inclined to resolve it and maintain a relationship with them.