Kids not wanting to attend SILs wedding after argument

[comfortablynumber]

My sister in law is getting married in 3 weeks. My daughter is a bridesmaid and my son is an usher. However we’ve all just had a huge row and now my children don’t particularly want to go either. Looking for advice.

Both my kids are in private school. Daughter year 10, son year 11. SIL very much disapproves of our choice. She also has a child in year 11. Over a family Sunday lunch we were discussing plans for post GCSE education. We’re not pulling the kids out of school during GCSEs but the fee increase is too much long term. The plan therefore is for them to complete their GCSEs in their current school and hopefully then get a place at the excellent local state school for 6th form. The local school is C of E which is why we couldn’t get in for senior school (I have some thoughts about that, but that’s another thread!) However for 6th form current pupils just have to achieve high GCSEs and new pupils very high GCSEs. They make offers to new pupils based on school predicted grades and the number of applicants etc. Last year for example to get in for A level maths you needed to be predicted a min 7 as well as scoring highly in an exam the school set.

I thought SIL would be happy, but she lost her mind. It was triggered by a comment my son made- he said he was looking forward to going because it would be nice to go somewhere bigger, meet new people and because most of his friends from his current school were also applying. His current school is selective and high achieving. Son is predicted 7-9 in almost everything and most of his friends are the same. We’re talking a year group of 150 kids with at least 50+% now applying to the local school (previously I’d say 10-20% went after GCSEs). This will obviously massively increase the competition for the places they can offer to people who aren’t already pupils.

SIL went off. It’s not fair apparently that her son and his friends may not be offered a place because of competition from kids who had the benefit of private education. She genuinely said that there should be a sort of tier system - like university contextual offers. The thing is, that other than the great C of E school the other school options aren’t good at all (hence us going private.) Son asked SIL if she was saying that because he’d been privately educated she thought he should go somewhere not great for A levels, and she said yes! Apparently he’ll do fine anywhere. Son said he didn’t want to do “fine”- he was aiming for better, and some of the other local schools don’t even offer things like further maths or A levels other than the basics.

DH (her brother) pointed out that the levelling up of state schools she thinks will happen when private schools lose pupils would take some time and there were bound to be issues initially, especially when lots more kids look to go to state schools for A levels in a few years. He’s been pissed off with her for years and pointed out that this is what she wanted. My son and daughter are very upset that their aunt seemingly doesn’t care that much about them.

I’m more sympathetic. Nephew has struggled in the school he’s currently in (also not able to get into C of E school) with low level bullying. He’s had 3 maths teachers in 18 months and his science teachers have been dreadful. The drama teacher is currently filling in in GCSE English lit for unknown reasons and it’s not going well. It’s all been a bit shit and I know they are hugely keen for him to go somewhere different for A level. However his predicted grades aren’t brilliant and he was always borderline as to whether he’d get in based on last years offers- the additional competition may well mess things up for him. SIL has been really upset about his school for a long time which is one of the reasons she’s been so cross about us going private. Apparently the local schools would have been better if the private school and the Cof E didn’t cream off the better pupils. She’s not wrong (don’t want this to be a thread about educational policy though) However my son and daughter are I think rightfully annoyed that she’d be happy to send them there!

It all got very fraught until my MIL nearly burst into tears and people calmed down. However the children are now saying they don’t want to be in her wedding. This is my problem- do I tell them to suck it up (outfits bought, far to late in the day to drop out, not doing it would cause possibly unrecoverable family strife, they love their cousin and my SIL when she’s not upset and speaking without thinking) or do I let them chose not to? They’re young and cross and I’m know they haven’t thought through the long term ramifications.

DH says we should leave them tonight but he’s not exactly impartial. I actually like SIL (despite being often and vocally judged) and think that everyone will end up regretting not going. I also think she’s a worried mother who is seeing the possibility of her child not getting a place somewhere he really wants to go. I’d be upset -and I am upset for nephew.
What do I do?

My sister, and by proxy my brother in law and my second DN took the nuclear option of not attending my wedding after a disagreement 6 days before our wedding, between my sister and I. My other nephew (sister's first son) decided to come.

My sister's decision completely fractured our relationship and it is very unlikely to recover. We have not spoken a word to each other in 16 months, I would find it very hard to forgive her for her 'punishment' of me because I dared to disagree with her for the first time in decades and I can't forgive her husband who encouraged her to dig her heels in. However, my relationship with my nephews is good - they are children and I place zero blame on them and I am certain that your sister in law, as an adult, will calm down and understand that she has projected a fair bit of frustration about her personal situation at children and that she will not consider for a minute saying she doesn't want them in the wedding. I hope you get it sorted. It's a shit situation.

Encouraging her DC not to let a disagreement on a single issue cause a family rift? No, she has the right attitude.

They need to put this behind the, for now and attend the wedding, it's too late to do otherwise. Lots of kids do well at state schools

Let me guess, you don't......

They were repeatedly warned though. Just like people were repeatedly warned about the brexit bus. It was 100% obvious.

This isn't a school in West London by any chance is it? Sounds very familiar!

"You have the wrong attitude and it's a damaging one."

Telling a couple of teenagers that they have to go to a close family members wedding is not "damaging". No wonder everyone's soft in the head these days.

C of E schools are not that strict. She could have done the whole church thing for a free place in an outstanding school if she wanted. Plenty of people do.

Re. your problem, however, I think your kids are old enough to have it explained to them that participating is the right thing to do. Stubbornly refusing will leave a larger, longer-lasting scar.

*I’d explain to your children that people have a right to think that you are playing the system and see it as unfair.

I’d also explain that if they believe themselves to be mature enough to enter into robust (and personal) debates with family, they are mature enough to accept that people have different opinions, and that doesn’t mean having a tantrum and backing out of wedding commitments etc.*

Absolutely. Your children are incredibly privileged and this privilege will continue going forward. I don't blame your SIL for being pissed off with the unfairness of it all.
Your son also needs to learn that differing opinions can be healthy. Your children sound as if they're having a tantrum and I can't believe you or your DH are even entertaining the prospect of them pulling out of the wedding!
Maybe ask them how they'd feel if their cousin was the one with the privilege and they were the ones at the 'lesser' school and to reflect on how that would make them feel.
They sound spoilt.

I think 15 is old enough to learn that he needs to keep quiet about this kind of thing in front of people who have not got the same privilege. If he's too young then it was on you to shut the conversation down before it got that far.

Obviously teenagers are self centred but really this is not about them. It's great for them that they have an unfair advantage over everyone else but they can hardly expect their aunt to see it in that light when her son is the one lumbered with the flip side unfair disadvantage.

They need to get over themselves and attend the wedding.

She should have bitten her tongue and realised 15yr olds don't understand the nuances...

But I wonder if a turning point was hearing all their classmates are applying too, and the sudden realisation of how desperately competitive it's going to be for her son.

You sound like a refreshingly thoughtful and considerate person, I'm sure you'll be able to talk to both sides down with the advice here, good luck.

OP there's a really interesting book called Nurtureshock which has a chapter on why white parents don't talk to their children about race. Or more accurately, why it's so damaging when we don't do so (enough).

They cite the growing child's brain's natural, hard wired tendency to form "us" and "other" categorisations. They argue it's developmental, ingrained in all of us to keep our ancestors safe so not anyone's fault, but in today's world it needs to be actively challenged, or it will just creep in and remain organically there.

I wonder if this might be a good angle to approach this with your kids, without it being too accusatory or personal. It's opened up some interesting conversations about privilege in our house without (hopefully) piling guilt on anyone. This is not to say your SIL is blameless and it's all your son's fault, but you're quite rightly looking at what is in your power to change.

OP, you can vote Labour and send your kids to private school. You shouldn't feel guilty about being able to and your SIL not being able to. Compassionate yes, guilty no.

What does she think will happen in the job market? Will there be only jobs for those who went to private school and jobs for those who went to a state school—you'll all be competing for the same thing?

I know a couple who have paid to put their three kids through UnI, fully paid, no student debt. I'd love to do that for my three kids, but I can't afford to, and that's the breaks. We all have our own privileges and see inequality in how we live our lives. It's when you don't recognise it anymore, that's when you need to worry.

I think both scenarios are grossly unfair. But my experience of MN tells me that the bitterness around private schooling often results in posters believing it’s perfectly fair for privately educated children to have to enter the state system because their parents can no longer afford the fees whilst simultaneously believing that it’s incredibly unfair for state educated children to miss out on the state school places that will inevitably be taken up by those same children. The vitriol from some posters is such that they almost wish those privately educated kids would just disappear.

No advice that has not already been given but you sound like a really decent person so good luck and hope this blows over soon.

I was just going to post a similar thought, but your post is far more eloquent and kinder than mine, so I'll just say I agree with you.

DS has been told he needs to leave his school, where he's previously been happy, for reasons he didn't have a choice in. He's choosing to look on the bright side, and be optimistic that he will go to a good state school and enjoy the different opportunities he might get there.

What was he supposed to say?

If he'd said, "It's going to be terrible, how on earth am I going to cope?" THAT would be insensitive.
If he'd said, "I probably won't get in, so I'm not thinking about it," he would be disingenuous and everyone would have known in.
If he'd said, "I feel so awful that another, more deserving child won't get a place because of me," or even, "I'm going to forgo my place at the good 6th form and take a place at the roughest one I can find to pay penance for my privilege up to now," then he would be an extremely odd child.

In an otherwise close and loving family you can’t just drop the bomb if not going to the wedding over a small argument where she has a point, however poorly it was made. There isn’t any coming back from that, it’ll cause a rift that’ll last for years and damage relations on all sides.

They know. They don't care. It achieved their aim and that was all they cared about.

Contextual offers are for students from the most underrated represented backgrounds - not from any state school. They go off the home postcode of the child. It's highly unlikely that a student that attended private school lives in an extremely deprived area.

I agree with this! This is not a conversation to be had over dinner, and with the children present. Frankly it's not a conversation that I would have at all.

And of course you can't cause a huge family rift about this. It's one argument over dinner.

Their aim is to improve state schools so that kids like the OPs nephew don't have to have a crap school experience.

"What was he supposed to say?"

He sat there going on about how him and his friends are going to apply for the places which will mean his cousin and his friends will be disadvantaged yet again.

Then got offended and heated when his aunt said that shouldn't happen and if anyone had to go to the shit school maybe it should be the kids who have been privileged to have the decent education so far.

He thinks that the cousin should go to the shit school so him and his mates can take the school with more subject choice and better teaching.

Maybe he should've kept his trap shut

Your SIL was completely out of order. While she may have a point about the wider education system as a whole, it’s totally unfair to say that to your son and expect him to curtail his life choices because of a situation not of his making. I totally get why your DC are pissed off and are taking a stand. Yes, by all means have a conversation to try to smooth things over, but your SIL needs to apologise for taking out her frustrations on a 15 year old. It will be a fun wedding if your try to force them to go when the situation hasn’t calmed down. Good luck with that one.

I think your son is getting some unfair comments there. I don't think he said anything to sound spoilt. It doesn't sound like he brought up the topic, and his comments were totally fair. Noting that he wants to go somewhere bigger and meet new people (who will also be from more different walks of life) is great. I don't even think it was thoughtless to note that he wanted to go as a lot of his friends are. That is normal for a teenager. It is not as though he was moaning about the state school or having to mix with other kids which would have been bad!
It is inevitable with the VAT changes and the availability of a good state school that private school kids will apply. It is also fair that your SIL is stressed out that the number of applicants will likely be higher and what that means for her son but she should never have taken it out on your son. It also isn't black and white at all. In different circumstances, she may also have sent her kid.
It is totally fair to ensure your kids understand about privilege but it sounds like you have a lot of guilt and I wonder if they may pick up on it.