To expect my daughter to have access to non halal meat

[Bushmillsbabe]

My daughters school now has only halal meat available for their school lunches.

I personally do not wish my child to have halal meat, I think its more cruel than other slaughter methods, however this thread is not intended to debate which is worse/better.

She is dairy and gluten intolerant, and her safe options tended to be things like roast chicken, the vegetarian options usually contain dairy. The pork sausages contain gluten so she would have the chicken sausages, she also eats burgers and meatballs but these are now also halal.

So if I don't give her halal meat, she is left with jacket potato with beans every day, which she does eat, but doesn't want to have every day.

I fully respect that Muslim parents wish their child to have halal meat, but am I wrong in thinking my dietary preferences for my daughter should also be respected and she should have access to non halal meat?

Honestly, I think of it this way: if I could choose to be killed, do I want to be electrocuted or have my throat slit and to bleed to death. Whilst I hope either, I'd opt for the latter. I've Christian Arab colleagues who only buy 'halal' meat as they reckon the meat tastes better as the animal has not had a sudden shock, but a 'slow gentle' death (arguable) so the meat is better tasting. They don't eat mass halal though. I rarely eat any meat.

Maybe in the past....but no. They're either gassed in crates (which crazily is actually more humane as they aren't manhandled, aren't strung up and it's quick), or they're shacked upside down and a conveyerbelt passes them through an electrical bath which kills them within a few seconds. There are laws around how long methods must take to kill them (ie as quick as possible). Issue with Halal and Kosher meat is that they have an exemption from these welfare laws. Whilst some slaughterhouses have adaptions and whatever else, you can't know for sure whether it had its throat slit whilst alive which takes longer and is more distressing than the other methods.

I don’t know if it would matter, that’s why I’m asking.

I love this and I think you are absolutely right

I've thought this in the past too. Those who have known sensory issues or allergies not catered for and are eligible for FSM should be given vouchers for packed lunch. I doubt it would ever come to be, but it's a great idea.

There was an article about primary schools in Wales trialling insect protein for children to eat. If it's a choice between insect protein and halal, I know what I'll be choosing.

www.publicsectorcatering.co.uk/news/four-welsh-schools-trial-edible-insects-part-research

It will never not be funny to me to hear about people talking about “cruel” methods of killing something!

OP do you equally insist that they only serve free range ethnically reared produce?

If not, are you sure your objection to halal meat is really about the manner of slaughter…..

Well yes if I have to pick a death and the options where slit throat hung upside down to slowly bleed to death or killed whilst knocked unconscious. I’ll go with the second please and thank you 🙏

This is not true though, there are legal exemptions for parts of the process on legal grounds for Halal and Kosher foods. Whilst no method is nice, there are some that are certainly less traumatic for the animal.

I'm aware, and I'm sure you're supporting campaigns to get that law changed.

Sounds more like a bit of Muslim bashing on a Sunday afternoon to me to be frank. I read an argument by a Muslim author on mass produced halal not actually complying with the breeding requirements ie the nature of mass production is cruel and inhumane, not only the slaughtering practice.

This is unfair, it reads like the poster is talking about providing something which is GF but also regular meat so covers both.

Can you point out the 'Muslim bashing' on this thread? I've read people commenting on the methods of slaughter, people correcting assumptions and people sharing their opinions about it; or is it the mere mention which has led you to making a hyperbolic remark in an attempt to shut down conversation?

Recently, I've thought even beyond the killing itself. That animal had a little life to live, maybe it's one and only life. Torn away

She stated the veggie options contained dairy

The information is there if the parents are bothered to find out what sort of meat their kids are eating, and how it was killed.

Just like you'd find out any information you feel strongly about.

You should just tell them you are Muslim then they have to give it to you.

There are a variety of methods, most have a high failure rate.

There are also high levels of mental illness and substance abuse amongst slaughter house workers.

People are either OK with eating a chunk of dead animal or they aren't. The assurances that people give themselves to make the feel alright are nonsense really.

None of the RSPCA approved or red tractor sign logos mean anything. They are a marketing ploy to combat growing ill feeling about the meat and dairy industry stemming from increased information about farming practices, livestock living conditions, neuroscience showing animals level of understanding etc.

Halal or non-halal is a non issue, many 'stunned' animals are fully conscious for their death. They simply had the added trauma of a botched 'stunning'.

Whether it is a bolt aimed wrongly at their head, not enough time being gassed to fully pass out, not being electrocuted thoroughly enough. Animals have shit lives, are massively stressed being transported to the slaughter house, are crammed into a space, tortured and killed. Then they are carved up by people who are working to a target and are not as highly trained as you might hope. Internal organs are cut with knives leaving faecal matter on the meat and knife that with carve up many other bodies.

I don't generally get all preachy vegan but OP's concern is apparently animal welfare, so it feels relevant.

If it's only words why do people need to eat meat that's been prayed on? Meat is Meat right so what difference does it make whether it's had a prayer or not? Both result in a dead animal, killed to be eaten.

I would prefer not to lie tbh we are not Muslim and the school are aware of that. It’s not a big deal anyway just sometimes my son comes out saying he hasn’t eaten because he doesn’t like jacket potato but wasn’t allowed the nuggets as he is “not halal”

Very insightful, informative post. It's just so sad. And I eat dairy, and I have a pair of ugg boots, although I did buy these about 5 years ago, haven't bought leather for my own feet since, but still. I know it is wrong, but I do it anyway. You kind of just push it back in your mind, or you think, but I need this to survive, shoes that last and high protein food... milk for coffee. I want to stop doing it

@Namechangetotalkaboutmysleepingpillsproblem off topic, but why don’t you try Veganuary? It is just a month to see how it suits you. I was a guilty meat eater (previously vegetarian) and then just stayed vegan. I was going to stop and just be veggie as I didn’t want to be a pain to other people when they were catering for me, but I decided vegan was the right choice for me and that was more important than inconveniencing people slightly (I just offer to bring my own food) or being laughed at (I can take a good ribbing, but almost 8 years on I do wish there was some new material, mockery wise, just to spice things up like)

@ShaunaSadeki I think I will. I feel like I would be happier living in line with my values- and to everyone else, I'm sorry if I've offended anyone. I was just kind of wallowing in my own guilt there, and I don't judge anyone for eating meat, my own DC does-- but yeah, I have tried before and found the vegan substitutes really expensive and gross, but I've seen recently a few new brands I could try, and maybe cut down on tea and coffee anyway

Schools that have tried to introduce meat free menus have met with absolute howls of fury. Largely based upon 'you're doing this because of muslims' in my unfortunate experience of dealing with them. It's discrimination and racism not to provide the poor, neglected white children pork and chicken for every meal, apparently.

But I was talking about kid with SEN and allergies having FSM vouchers for packed lunches.