To expect my daughter to have access to non halal meat

[Bushmillsbabe]

My daughters school now has only halal meat available for their school lunches.

I personally do not wish my child to have halal meat, I think its more cruel than other slaughter methods, however this thread is not intended to debate which is worse/better.

She is dairy and gluten intolerant, and her safe options tended to be things like roast chicken, the vegetarian options usually contain dairy. The pork sausages contain gluten so she would have the chicken sausages, she also eats burgers and meatballs but these are now also halal.

So if I don't give her halal meat, she is left with jacket potato with beans every day, which she does eat, but doesn't want to have every day.

I fully respect that Muslim parents wish their child to have halal meat, but am I wrong in thinking my dietary preferences for my daughter should also be respected and she should have access to non halal meat?

This is correct. My DD was a consultant in a large chicken processing plant here in Australia recently which supplies supermarket chains. All the chickens are stunned soon after arrival and before death. She said the mass halal certification (via recorded prayer) is for business efficiency reasons so that they do not have to have separate plants etc. Many of the customers are takeaway joints which tend to be located in urban areas with diverse clientele and that’s their demand.

Obviously, Muslims are like Christians and Jews - there is a spectrum of orthodoxy and they are diverse in how they choose to practice their religion, if at all. Some will be fine with supermarket halal whereas the stricter ones might go to a specialist butcher.

You can care about how an animal is killed while still eating meat. All this’if you really cared you wouldn’t eat meat’ stuff is being disingenuous-the majority of people in the UK eat meat and I’d say most want the death of an animal to be relatively humane. The introduction of captive bolt stunning or even electrical stunning was a big step forward for farm animal welfare. Now we’re taking a step back to pander to people who believe that animals have to be killed a certain way to appease their god. It made sense when there were desert societies with no stunning and also that you’d select healthy animals to minimise disease. But we have a history of stunning animals before slaughter on this country-and objecting to kosher or halal is t anything to do with any ‘phobia’ but a criticism of extreme cruelty when there are better ways. We’re not even allowed to know if meat is non halal or non kosher in the shops-to appease religious people who for some reason don’t want it labelled. I’d like to avoid non stunned meat but don’t have that option. I think meat should be labelled that it has not been stunned before slaughter-I know some halal is but not all.

It actually wasn't posted to 'rile people up' it was posted to help with a disagreement my dh and I were having. He felt I was unreasonable to have an issue with it, so I posted to get a consensus/opinions. I has no idea there had been similar threads/posts, but he is very happy that most people agree with him

My bad @Bushmillsbabe must just be a coincidence that there’s a lot of chatter on sm about this today

Tried that, she ate none of it. She will only eat gf bread toasted and warm, probably due to her sensory issues but also to be fair, gf bread is not the best and toasting it makes it slightly better. We tried other options but lunchbox cane back full every time.

I don't think Halal should he the default option at all schools however, if the school has a lot of Muslim students then it makes sense they would switch to halal meat. There are a lot of chains resturants that only ise halal meat. Personally I wouldn't tell her as its not going to taste any different

Which is why it would be sensible for OP to ask those supplying the food.

For example, the catering company providing school meals at my younger child's school only sources meat that was stunned before slaughter. They are up front about this, I assume because parents have asked.

I don't really go on much SM, I use mumsnet to help give me perspectives where I'm not sure if my ND is being unreasonable, but if there has been a lot recently then I can see why people might think I'm trying to cause issues, but I'm not, just trying to navigate between my concerns and my daughters best interests. And the later should of course always come first, but sometimes it take outsiders to help put things into perspective.

If you had any compassion, it should have harmed your conscience to know that about 45% of animals slaughtered in the UK via halal methods are not pre stunned. This means that they were slaughtered whilst fully conscious, depending on the method leaving them terrified and in pain for seconds or minutes until death. This is disgusting and appalling cruelty. Non-stun slaughter is widely recognized by the BVS etc etc as having the potential to cause unnecessary suffering.

Are all the people complaining about animal suffering on here vegan? Cos if not you’re all a bunch of massive hypocrites

Yes I could ask, I just assumed that by definition halal meat wasn't stunned as that would make it not halal?

I was also trying to figure out if I was unreasonable to even ask

I agree with you to an extent, but I do feel people are having a kind of disconnect that any slaughter is more humane than it really is

I'm vegan (partly through choice and partly due to allergies) so don't have a vested interest really, but I would say as she has a limited diet this isn't something I would feel strongly enough about personally to restrict her food even further if chicken is one of the few things she'll eat at school. I do think lots are being disingenuous by claiming they don't see the difference, there often is. Even though ones that have been stunned are largely 'permitted', they are exempt from having to should logistics allow it so it's impossible to know for sure. If you're religious yourself I can see why you wouldn't want it as well.

I agree with you, and I feel guilty for eating dairy, and yet I keep doing it

Kosher meat is worse as although Halal meat is also legally exempt from having to stun first, it is acceptable as long as other criteria are met; with Kosher it isn't. Kosher is a lot less widespread though, I don't know why Halal meat seems to be creeping into a lot of places when Muslims make a small % of the country, probably a different discussion though.

And I buy leather shoes too 😞

This is one of the most ignorant things that I have ever read.

You clearly do not understand religious slaughter.

Being concerned about non-stunning in halal (or Kosher) slaughter and animal suffering is not ‘Islamophobia’. It’s intelligent and compassionate to be concerned.

It is not true that the ‘vast majority’ of halal meat in this country is pre- stunned. In 2022, only about 65% of halal slaughtered animals were stunned first. This means that hundreds of thousands of animals died unnecessarily terrified and potentially in pain, fully aware. This is appalling and completely unacceptable in any modern society. It is is not ‘Islamophobia’.

All of the major veterinary societies, the RSPCA etc. state how cruel it is. Does this tell you something?

I assume you feel the same way about kosher?

The fuss is, with halal slaughter, a significant percentage of animals are not pre-stunned. So depending on the method of slaughter, they are fully conscious and aware during the slaughter process.
For cows, this might mean being killed by having your throat slit whilst fully conscious and being left to die by blood loss, in pain and increasing confusion. It is not instantaneous. It is barbaric

Seen as though the school isn't serving it and it's quite challenging and definitely more expensive to get hold of, unless OP was specifically going out of their way to buy it, would it matter?

YABU. I'm not Muslim but the animal is still killed without its consent anyway.

If you're that unhappy, give her a packed lunch. It'll be cheaper in the long run.

Halal is a preference rather than a need…..

It didn’t harm my conscience, I was 12.

Death is generally considered harmful.

I have to strongly agree with that...