Time for a new PM and Chancellor?

[Whenwillitgetwarm]

I wrote this on another thread but feel it should have its own thread.

Although I voted Labour (the current Tory’s are too insane), I think it may be time to swap out Starmer and Reeves. If this is done early, there’s enough parliament time left to bed a new PM and Chancellor in.

They both lack ideas, seem confused, no vision etc. They had 14 years to think up workable plans. Coming in and throwing their hands up saying there’s no money so they can’t do anything is very poor. They want to continue austerity on the sly. They indulge in stupid culture wars like VAT to rob Peter to pay Paul (and Paul won’t see a penny anyway). They have bad advisors and are arrogant. It looks like they are just excited to have the job titles and don’t know what to do.

Get a top two who will come up with a bold plan. We’re in the gutter so there’s opportunities to deliver quick wins. They don’t always need funding, simple policy changes can make big and quick differences. If they gave each department a target to deliver one quick legislative win by Christmas, we’d start 2025 differently.

Unfortunately we’re stuck with two people who can’t believe their luck, and who are afraid of the Daily Mail, Murdoch, some loud Redwall types and bots on X who wish our country economic harm. They are weak.

If Labour were a football team, there would be fans screaming for Starmer to be sacked now.

This is not about getting rid of Labour. I believe there is talent in the wider party, much more than in the Conservatives who hollowed out their party under Johnson. Nevertheless I just don’t think Starmer and Reeves should have their roles.

There are plenty of other threads to criticise Muslims and Islam on.

Not surprised that comment was deleted.

"Rate of expansion slower than first half of year" remains extremely concerning.

Ridiculous post ! The Tory p r machine strikes again

It was stronger in first half and then stagnated.

There’s no major change mid year other than change of gov.

We’ll see though. They have pledged a lot on the back of it, maybe they can get it going again

Yes - budget will be key but there's a lot of nervousness - understandably - with such a long wait until the first budget. It's very interesting to see the effect this long delay has had.

Nope, I have said it face to face. All belief is debatable, and there are many, many sensible people of faith who recognise this.

Well yes issues around religion and faith can be debated.

But your point was to say to pp they couldn’t hold the faith they did. Do you say that to anyone, you cannot be of that faith? It’s their personal relationship after all.

Would you avoid posting in the same way for other faiths as you did for pp?

I think you are very much twisting pointythings' words here EasternStandard. She (and I) have have pointed out that some of what that poster, who is a Christian, has written goes against the teachings of Christ.

I would say the same to anyone who was proclaiming themselves to be of any faith yet writing posts that were clearly in conflict with the basic tenets of that faith.

It is interesting. There are quite a few Reform voters who loudly proclaim their Christian faith. I am not sure what Jesus would have made of Farage.

@pointythings posted ‘debatable’ to a Christian answering I am

It was a brief one worder in response.

ie they thought they could question whether the pp was Christian at all.

Have you posted that you find it ‘debatable’ to anyone on here for another faith?

I haven't said llizzie's or anyone else's faith is "debateable".

Did you see what llizzie wrote in her deleted post?

I posted that person's faith was debatable because as @PandoraSox said, what they posted was very much in opposition to Christian teachings. Maybe I should have used more words, bug the point stands. Many people who claim to be Christian do not practise what they claim.

I also know a lot of genuine Christians who absolutely do follow Christ's teachings, and the difference between their attitudes and the pp under discussion is stark.

You can't just talk the talk, you have to walk the walk.

And yes, if someone on here posted similar and claimed to be a devout member of any other faith, I would challenge that.

@pointythings did and you are supporting those posts. But you wouldn’t use the same wording for any faith, why is that?

I didn’t but if she lost her temper I’m surprised she lasted as she did after the initial post claiming she could not be her faith. And the subsequent posters adding to that.

I did. It was basically 'all Muslims will kill you if you disrespect their beliefs'. Absolutely grotesque thing to post and highly discriminatory.

With hindsight I would use more words, as I have just said. But the meaning would be exactly the same. You cannot claim a faith but not adhere to its values. That is hypocrisy.

She didn't lose her temper, she wrote a horribly bigoted post. Yet here you are supporting her.

Also, yes I would call other people out on MN for being hypocritical to their faith, whether Christian, Jewish, Muslim or any other faith. I haven't ever had cause to yet, though.

Religion is many things and not all is positive but each person who holds it decides on that faith.

Whether Christianity or Islam it’s not actually within your gift to say you are not that religion or you do not have that faith.

Bridget Phillipson reminds me of the evil nanny from 'the hand that rocks the cradle.'
I think its the juxtaposition between the image she tries to portray and her dark soul beneath the surface.

She didn't lose her temper. What she posted was discriminatory and bigoted and quite rightly removed for breaching talk guidelines (no I didn't report it but I'm not surprised that others did).

What does she have to do with the PM or the Chancellor?

But it is very much in my gift to point out that someone is not acting in a way that is in keeping with the tenets of the faith they profess.

Nothing at all, it's just more Labour smearing based on someone 's looks this time.

Dark soul? WTF?
Such a weird thing to say. How can you possibly know the contents of someone’s soul (if such a thing even exists)?

The pp said ‘I am’ so that doesn’t fit, your response was to that. I take it you can see why it wasn’t a good way to go

As for tenets of faith the pp was gracious in her first response to you

‘Now I would love for you to tell me why you question my faith. No one is perfect, no one is without sin.

If you are without sin, please be my guest, and throw the stone.’

That's not gracious at all.

I don't claim perfection either, but nor do I claim a faith and then post one of the foulest things I've seen on Mumsnet for some time. You have been told what it was but you haven't said a word about it. Why is that?

And I repeat: If so.eone claims 'I am a Christian ' and then posts things which are in contradiction to the values of their professed faith, they can be challenged on that. I don't see why that bothers you so much.