Time for a new PM and Chancellor?

[Whenwillitgetwarm]

I wrote this on another thread but feel it should have its own thread.

Although I voted Labour (the current Tory’s are too insane), I think it may be time to swap out Starmer and Reeves. If this is done early, there’s enough parliament time left to bed a new PM and Chancellor in.

They both lack ideas, seem confused, no vision etc. They had 14 years to think up workable plans. Coming in and throwing their hands up saying there’s no money so they can’t do anything is very poor. They want to continue austerity on the sly. They indulge in stupid culture wars like VAT to rob Peter to pay Paul (and Paul won’t see a penny anyway). They have bad advisors and are arrogant. It looks like they are just excited to have the job titles and don’t know what to do.

Get a top two who will come up with a bold plan. We’re in the gutter so there’s opportunities to deliver quick wins. They don’t always need funding, simple policy changes can make big and quick differences. If they gave each department a target to deliver one quick legislative win by Christmas, we’d start 2025 differently.

Unfortunately we’re stuck with two people who can’t believe their luck, and who are afraid of the Daily Mail, Murdoch, some loud Redwall types and bots on X who wish our country economic harm. They are weak.

If Labour were a football team, there would be fans screaming for Starmer to be sacked now.

This is not about getting rid of Labour. I believe there is talent in the wider party, much more than in the Conservatives who hollowed out their party under Johnson. Nevertheless I just don’t think Starmer and Reeves should have their roles.

Yes, and me. PIP, AA and DLA were increased last April. Along with pensions, UC etc.

Working age people, who were on DLA, were supposed to have been migrated over to PIP, in 2013, after review. Many never have been. Anyone pension age now, after these delays, will stay on DLA.

Anyone on PIP, DLA and AA can apply for higher rate. Rates given are awarded after assessment.

But, no one, under pension age, receives the WFA. They never have paid it to working age people, disabled or not.

The cold weather payments are made to those, any age, on means tested benefits, if the temperature goes low enough for long enough.🙂

Well, I'm one of those immigrants. I came to the UK in 1997 and have been here ever since, working almost exclusively for the NHS. I own a home outright and do not claim benefits. Every job I have had, I've obtained because I was the best applicant. Yep, immigrants are terrible.

We need to speak about immigration with a lot more nuance.

Erm, we've got a new PM and Chancellor.

Why are you trying to twist what I say. Where have I said that immigrants are terrible?

Yes a certain amount of immigration is good for a country, no one is denying that. I am in agreement with controlled immigration. I think it's madness to rely on cheap labour from abroad. You hear so many different things on these threads, we need immigrants to do the jobs the Brits don't want to do or we have a shortage of workers in this country so need more people from abroad to fill the jobs. It can't be both.

It's ridiculous that someone working 16 hours a week and getting top up benefits is worse off if they increase their hours.

And it's no good Starmer saying he's going to speed up the application process. That just passes the problem on to local councils, it doesn't solve anything.

Although I responded to you, the point was aimed more widely. We have had a decade of immigrants being blamed for the ills of the UK - by the right wing press and by the government. That has brought us rioting, racism, the folly that is Brexit and the rise of Reform. Everyone needs to be a lot more mindful of how they talk about immigration and immigrants.

We still need to have conversations about immigration and not shut down a debate by calling racism every time someone voices their concerns. Perhaps if previous Governments had done this we wouldn't be where we are today. The concerns regarding immigration are not going to go away and if you try and shut down debate you just push more people to the far right which will be disastrous.

Well, as I posted above, Labour were very vocal about immigration in their manifesto. It remains to be seen whether they do anything.

I am not looking forward to the next 10 years tbh.

I'd like to clarify that when I said DLA. had not increased under the Tories, I meant it hadn't in creased beyond the normal annual uprating. The PP made it seem as though the Tories made DLA more generous, which they obviously didn't as it has been abolished for people of working age (although as you say, some are still on it due to PIP roll out not having been completed).

Well exactly, cuts to workers rights, sounds like hell.

I acknowledge nothing. Perhaps you are not searching in the same place?

If you want to question my faith, do it with some evidence that you can show categorically that I do not understand what a Christian is. You cannot be a Christian, because Christ said ''Judge not, that you be not judged''. The Christian faith is one relationship - a personal one between God and a follower through Jesus Christ. You have no right to question anyone on their faith, or judge the meaning of anything we say or do. That is one big problem in the world. I hope you do not say that to a Muslim person. They may not be so accepting of the ignorant as I am.

I don't know you, but I know I do not like you. I will not argue with you because that would make me the same as you, and I do not want that. If you want to dominate threads by insisting posters are wrong, that is your prerogative.

Absolutely right, and what have they done? Starmer also made a point before the election, and in the house at question time, that the Tory government were not moving fast enough in processing the immigrants, and that a labour government would do better. It beggars belief that some labour voters on this thread are making excuses, especially the ones where they say asylum seekers don't need to be processed. If that is true, we have far more to worry about than I realised.

I suppose I must congratulate you on your ability to turn a very serious question the OP posted into a free-fore-all spiteful accusation of peoples' morals, judgements, truth, knowledge of bullying anger and resentment, and encourage others to do the same.

It matters not who is right or wrong. We all have the same access to information online, and all can check. There are polite ways to differ from other posters, without resorting to spite and venom.

But you have been fact checked multiple times on this thread, with links, and you have not admitted that you were wrong. You have also not admitted that you were wrong to describe people arriving in small boats as 'illegal'.

Why should anyone believe a word you say after all that?

And it wasn't a serious question. It was just another stupid anti Labour thread from a pathetic person who can't give a new government time to put the work in.

Labour have deported more overstayers in their first three months than the Tories did with their Rwanda plan. This is a fact.

I don't know you, but I know I do not like you. I will not argue with you because that would make me the same as you, and I do not want that. If you want to dominate threads by insisting posters are wrong, that is your prerogative.

I only insist that posters are wrong when they are in fact wrong. Which you have been, as evidenced by the many links people have posted, most from actual government websites.

You are also wrong about what constitutes an illegal immigrant. Why should you be exempt from challenge when you are factually wrong?

"I do not like thee, Doctor Fell
The reason why I cannot tell
But this I know, and know full well
I do not like thee, Doctor Fell" 😁

You are not comparing like for like.

Christ said ''Judge not, that you be not judged''

You were doing a fair bit of judging in this post. I think Jesus would not approve of this.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5181217-time-for-a-new-pm-and-chancellor?reply=138894441&utm_campaign=reply&utm_medium=share

Still not admitting you were wrong about things, I see.

What a load of nonsense. I have had many robust debates about religion with many people, Muslims included, and said strong things about deities and prophets as well as those who follow them. I am still here. Why do you have such a low opinion of Muslims, anc who do you think they are all the same?

Of course I wouldn't. What a stupid and bigoted thing to say.

Were these robust debates in Muslim countries? I have lived in such countries and you are expected to show respect for the religion at all times. Jesus is a prophet in the Koran and therefore Christians are also respected as “children of the book”.

Have you posted to someone within that faith that their belief was ‘debatable’?

It is very early days and a small step forward, but Labour may well be starting to pass your test, ES.

www.theguardian.com/business/2024/oct/11/uk-economy-returns-to-growth-in-boost-to-rachel-reeves-before-budget