The way some people let toddlers behave......

[Purpleturtle46]

I have own 3 kids in primary and secondly so still completely remember what the toddler stage was like but recently I have noticed on several occasions that people just let their toddlers run wild. Yesterday for example I was at a farm park with my youngest who has just turned 8 and the following are examples from just one day.

-DD in big sandpit quite focussed on building something and toddlers allowed on several occasions to come over and knock it down, no intervention from parents.

-huge slide from top of 3 story fort thing with big queue of kids at top, none can go down as toddler standing at bottom. Mum comes and removes toddler after a while and process repeats itself several more times.

-lots of sunken trampolines in ground, one child per trampoline. DD waits patiently to have a go, toddler then gets on with her. Parents seem to find this cute, DD gives up and just gets off.

-a throw a hoop over the witches hat game. Toddler running in-between the hats so DD has to wait until toddler is removed after some half hearted attempts to shout across from the picnic bench Dad is sitting at.

-older baby crawling around the middle of the floor in a cafe, waiter carrying 2 huge plates of food nearly trips over them.

And that's just one day. Obviously it's not the fault of the toddlers but when my kids (3 under 4 so not easy) were that age I constantly had to talk to them about turn taking etc. Yeah of course it's hard work but that's how they they learn. Just getting fed up of older children being expected to tolerate this behaviour and parents finding it funny and cute! I suspect my DD is probably mildly autistic and although she coped ok with all this I could tell it was frustrating her as she always waits her turn, I'm sure that would be annoying for any child. I am always torn between showing my kids a balance of being tolerant but also standing up for yourself and not being a people pleaser which I probably am guilty of.

The worst one I saw recently was at 2 of my kids' trampolining club award afternoon where the coach was making a speech and a toddler was being allowed to run around between the kids and not sitting with parents in spectator area. The kids found it funny so were giggling while the poor coach was trying to make a nice speech about the kids, she was clearly pissed off, fair enough! Again all attention on this toddler with the parents doing nothing to stop it and looking on at the toddler all gooey eyed!

Has anyone else noticed this trend?

so is this the reason all the french exchange students who used to come over here to my secondary school were all so rude with no manners?

This is why last year we moved from a small house & garden in an expensive area to a large house and v.large garden in a much cheaper area.
This was almost solely motivated by the fact that DH and I were utterly sick of shit people ruining our excursions because they let their dogs and children run amok. We have 5 DC and they are never allowed to negatively encroach on other people, and the older ones have enough awareness now where they wouldn't anyway.

It's worse with dogs IMO because it's potentially dangerous, frightening and also disgusting. But we've had heaps of bad experiences with poorly parented children also.
In our old lifestyle we were out and about most days; play park, country park, local woodland, local walks, local beach, farm park, adventure play. All ruined so many times. And we are easy going and 'live and let live' types and not overly precious about things. But society has gone downhill significantly. And we had years of being the polite people who always said 'no worries' and tried not to mind after yet another dog peed over our picnic or a feral child stole my toddlers ice cream.

I was just sick and tired after so many experiences similar to what is described above. So now we have this large property and rarely venture off. We invite people over plenty, the kids have their activities etc. But so many places are ruined by inadequate people, there seems to have been a population explosion of them.
National Trust used to be a real haven but sadly they had to capitulate to the doggers in the end after a vicious campaign was waged on them, and so those beautiful places are just another dog toilet now - like everywhere else.
We still love to go to our local beach but its rare we are unmolested by dogs. My DH always takes a large metal space with us and dog owners only get one warning these days before he starts swinging. Usually people go off in tears then as they are so horrified their precious mutt was threatened but we cant take any more chances after our DD was bitten last year.

Other people we know have also had enough and take cricket bats to the beach, have started carrying the metal hiking poles on walks etc - so crap dog walkers beware, the fight back has begun.

My toddler behaved himself. Always.
You are the problem here. Don't you see that?

The parents of toddlers are however, hopefully, out of that stage themselves , and can remove the child that is playing in the mud at the bottom of the slide whilst everyone else queues at the top. That seems to be increasingly impossible. I an the granny of 2 toddlers and have them every Monday. I do not let them play in a way that spoils the enjoyment of other children.

Not my experience when it comes to toddlers. They are a handful (mine are absolutely bonkers) but most people know that and are on top of them, probably more than they should be sometimes. It’s the older kids that are left to play that have an attitude and are impatient with younger children. My 5yo once tried to talk to a boy on a slide who must have been about 9, who told him to fuck off right in front of me.

and in half of these examples the parent has come to the child?

toddlers are going to be crazy, and yeah sometimes I am dealing with my older child and haven’t caught what the little one is doing for a second because he’s like lightning and he’s doing something he’s never done before.

some of these examples, fair enough. A lot of these comments, just judgy without reason. Have fun on your high horses.

@DalRiata my LO has a terrible dairy allergy, carries an epi pen and had an awful reaction after a dog came running up to him and started licking his face, he immediately broke out in hives and they said oh sorry he’s just had a ice cream, FFS. Why is your dog running up to and licking small children! If I hear one more, don’t worry he’s friendly I’ll scream

Yep.Ive just started working at a secondary and I don't know how the teachers don't lose it with them tbh

The concepts of judgement and shame need to make a comeback sharpish.

The parents-and older children-have become so used to no-one daring to make a remark that they carry on unheeded-ruling the roost.
They have no natural civilizing traits about themselves and so are pleased with this.

Given that they are unable or unwilling to civilize themselves because they enjoy the fruits of doing exactly what they want to do, society-as a whole-need to do it for them.

So, they need to be shamed and one way to do this is for society-individuals and as a whole to judge their shitty behaviour and call them out publicly for it.

Sadly, this would need all decent people to sing from the same hymn sheet. So, when one individual tackles a scrote about their or their children's behaviour-other decent individuals then need to join in and back up the decent person, not sit there pretending they haven't heard.

The excuses put forward by scrotes for their and their children's behaviour needs to be ignored-both in school and without-no silencing of people because their child has PDA or some such. Phrases such as 'don't judge-you're only seeing a snap shot of their life" would be treated with derision and laughed at.

The greater good of the majority-their ability to live in a civilized society trumps the right of those who don't.

If this happened, most of them would eventually pull their horns in. They wouldn't really feel shame-because they have no civilizing traits-but they would be frightened into behaving. There would be consequences if they didn't.

For serious offences-children damaging stuff or other children-they would appear in court where they would be judged, found wanting and punished.

Will this happen?

Of course not, Why not?

Firstly, Because it would need every single decent person in society to participate and sadly, there are too many dopes who will always find an excuse to overlook.

Secondly, because the number of uncivilized people is becoming too much of an oversized minority.

Thirdly, because the police, schools and judges are totally ineffective, most having swallowed the crapulous excuses.

So, the goths are inside the gate, they are setting the agenda-the next generation of them will be worse.

What can we do?

Run for them there hills!

FFS, you really are that mother. Do your bloody job instead of making excuses and before you tell me how hard it is i have had over 2 decades of nursery and daycare behind me and 3 of my own children. A room with 24 toddlers at one time and i managed to keep them safe and under control. Do your job.

I agree some parents are just not on top of these things. Obviously toddlers are going to act like that but parents should be ready to intervene. I have no qualms about telling off other people's kids or saying oh be careful if no one seems to be around.
Similarly my eldest was told off by another parent for being in the little soft play area. I didn't know as was sat up in the viewing area. Have no problem with this as she was obviously in the wrong.

Yes conversely, in M&S yesterday three girls probably 8, 6, 5, held the doors open for me to pass through first. I smiled at their mum and said she should be proud of them. Lovely.

I’m a teacher and have masters degrees in both education and child psychology. Thanks for the info though ☺️🤦‍♀️

Sorry but this is insane. I currently have a 2 year old and I can’t imagine letting them behave like this. If they’d like to tantrum that’s totally okay with me as it’s age appropriate and what they need to do. But that doesn’t mean other behaviour is acceptable. He’s never knocked over stuff in a sandpit, but that’s not to say he might not ever do it by mistake in the future (hopefully never on purpose!)

side point - Personally I find that older children ar very intolerant of toddlers. If mine is going on the slide he will get pushed and other similar stuff.

As far as kids goes, my theory is twofold - firstly, rubbish parents from the bottom of society now have more money and it's become more culturally normal for them, to go out to family places - wheras when I was a child I reckon a lot of those types rarely left their immediate surroundings.

Secondly, middle class parenting fashions have changed and it is now seen as somehow superior (in their foolish minds) to be completely hands off.

All the worst culprits seem to be middle class buffoons and people who look like they are straight from the set of Shameless.

Not to roll out a MN cliche, but neurodiverse children often hit when they’re upset . My son hits and screams if he doesn’t get his own way, no matter what I do. I just have to remove him from the situation and try to calm him down outside so I get less judgmental twits staring or commenting at us!

Funniest bit of writing I’ve read in a long time.

Get a grip and should you be judged-yes, you should.

Judging and Judgement are not dirty words. It is generally only those who will be judged and found wanting who think so,

So, enjoy being on your low horse. I'm on my high one and looking right down at you.

It's just lazy parenting, obviously.

'Oh it's just a developmental stage so there's nothing I can do'

Yep, and it's no coincidence that this philosophy just so happens to allow you to sit on your arse, drinking coffee, and doing fuck all while your toddler creates havoc.

I remember this phase well. It's the phase where you can't take your eye off them for a nanosecond. If you did, they'd be likely to do dangerous things like crawl around on floors when waiters are carrying hot coffee.

So you remove them from that situation and they have a tantrum. Fine. You manage the tantrum, and where at all possible you remove them outside or to somewhere that will cause the minimum possible disturbance to others.

In other words, parent your children. They don't just 'grow out of it' on their own. They need guidance and appropriate boundaries, and it's the parents' responsibility to set them.

That is horrifying, I'm so sorry. These people are animals.

And yes, always the same inadequate, inane bleating of 'he's friendly'.
Last week at the beach I had to sit and freeze in the chilly wind thanks to some shit letting their stinking mutt run at me and put its paws into my lap, dog was fresh from the sea and soaked through my leggings. We'd only just got there with the DC so I was forced to sit there soaked with icy water for two hours.
'Sorry about that' was casually thrown over the shoulder of imbecile owner. They are vile, dont even care when their dogs knock babies over.

God I was a complete terror as a young kid and a very well adjusted teenager and adult - my parents taught me empathy! My friends kid was crazy when he was little, prone to strops and tantrums and yet a lovely, creative, well behaved 12 year old. Both he and I follow logical rule and question ones we disagree with!

I do think you’ve to step in when a kid is hitting or being disruptive but I do not believe children should be obedient little robots ready for the production line - never question authority.

I agree with the poster on England being less tolerant of toddlers - I go to Ireland and Spain sometimes and it is a lot more relaxed, I feel less judged for my toddler being a toddler, shrieking for no reason or stopping to have a twirl on a footpath. The amount of people who look annoyed here having to go round us on walks because my toddler walks slow or decides she is a cat and starts crawling on all 4s. I feel there are a lot of nuclear families here where an individuals family comes first and are very intolerant of anyone who inconveniences them - just a bit of a lack of community and empathy among some people (obviously not everyone as I’ve met some lovely people and some really lovely creative kids). We should mind our kids, teach them to be mindful but also be aware they are kids and sometimes they need to cut loose, sing and have a twirl!

In other words, the vast majority of society. Excepting, of course, the missing angle of the social stratum: the upper classes. You've never seen them behave atrociously or raise horrible, jumped-up brats who think the world exists to serve them?

Awful behaviour isn't determined by social class. Knowledge of etiquette doesn't mean you can't be as rude and arrogant as sin. But the above is a revealing insight into why those with social privilege are deemed to be above criticism.

I agree that we need to bring back judgement and censure for this lazy parenting. There is absolutely no virtue in allowing your 3 year old to roll around on the floor of a busy cafe. It's bloody dangerous for the toddler and everyone else.

A few weeks back I nearly stepped on said 3 year old because I just didn't seem them (well below my line of sight).

@DalRiata ahh yes the jumping up covered in mud which then ruins your clothes only to be met with a laugh and an eye roll as if to say. Oh what are they like. We’ve started staying to people now, no it’s not ok, they’ve ruined our clothes or they’ve hurt our child and the looks you get! We also live next to a beautiful beach and it’s so upsetting to see some people spoiling it for everyone else, I don’t know what the solution is, feels like children and dogs have taken over the world 😂 said as a mother of two young children

I have 2 toddlers and have the same issue with older children. It's 50/50, some I really well behaved and wait their turn / pay attention to the younger ones, others just do what they want with no care in the world.
We spend a lot of time teaching our children how to behave in the playground etc, and it's much harder when the older children around them don't give a sh*t.