The way some people let toddlers behave......

[Purpleturtle46]

I have own 3 kids in primary and secondly so still completely remember what the toddler stage was like but recently I have noticed on several occasions that people just let their toddlers run wild. Yesterday for example I was at a farm park with my youngest who has just turned 8 and the following are examples from just one day.

-DD in big sandpit quite focussed on building something and toddlers allowed on several occasions to come over and knock it down, no intervention from parents.

-huge slide from top of 3 story fort thing with big queue of kids at top, none can go down as toddler standing at bottom. Mum comes and removes toddler after a while and process repeats itself several more times.

-lots of sunken trampolines in ground, one child per trampoline. DD waits patiently to have a go, toddler then gets on with her. Parents seem to find this cute, DD gives up and just gets off.

-a throw a hoop over the witches hat game. Toddler running in-between the hats so DD has to wait until toddler is removed after some half hearted attempts to shout across from the picnic bench Dad is sitting at.

-older baby crawling around the middle of the floor in a cafe, waiter carrying 2 huge plates of food nearly trips over them.

And that's just one day. Obviously it's not the fault of the toddlers but when my kids (3 under 4 so not easy) were that age I constantly had to talk to them about turn taking etc. Yeah of course it's hard work but that's how they they learn. Just getting fed up of older children being expected to tolerate this behaviour and parents finding it funny and cute! I suspect my DD is probably mildly autistic and although she coped ok with all this I could tell it was frustrating her as she always waits her turn, I'm sure that would be annoying for any child. I am always torn between showing my kids a balance of being tolerant but also standing up for yourself and not being a people pleaser which I probably am guilty of.

The worst one I saw recently was at 2 of my kids' trampolining club award afternoon where the coach was making a speech and a toddler was being allowed to run around between the kids and not sitting with parents in spectator area. The kids found it funny so were giggling while the poor coach was trying to make a nice speech about the kids, she was clearly pissed off, fair enough! Again all attention on this toddler with the parents doing nothing to stop it and looking on at the toddler all gooey eyed!

Has anyone else noticed this trend?

As someone who has a toddler (20 months) I’ve noticed it’s the opposite, I’m like glue when we are out making sure she doesn’t harm herself and all my friends are the same.
Meanwhile the older children are running riot knocking over the smaller children, breaking/snatching things and not a parent actually parenting in sight.

You are unreasonable for saying mildly autistic. There's no such thing

Don’t think she’s being smug or forgetting, she’s talking about parents just letting their toddlers get in the way/be in potentially dangerous situations. Why do some parents just look on and not intervene? I’m aware it’s a full time job, out with 7 kids under 12 recently (plus various adults) and all of us were vigilant, keeping little ones safe/out of other dcs’ way. We had to intervene with someone else’s dc who was about 9 and was shoving ours out of the way. No idea who/where the parent was.

It's not uniquely British, the example I gave earlier in the thread was an eastern European family.

Just because it is ‘normal and expected behaviour for that age of development’ does NOT mean you just sit back and do nothing and allow it to bother other people. You cagole, distract, pick up and yes, deal with the screaming and tantrums…

That’s what good parenting is. And it’s about teaching your child to live in community with others.

Honestly, some parents are entirely selfish and thick as pig shit and lack any basic common sense or consideration…🙄

YANBU op.

👆this kind of person is your problem. Same people who trot out the “boys will be boys” line. Well… no if you parent them. Try it!

Yes, they do act like that. And it's their parents job to move them along/remove them from situations like that when they aren't in the complying mode. Else it's not fair to everyone else trying to enjoy their own days out!

This is more about lazy, shit parenting than anything else ... parents who can't be arsed to monitor their toddlers and remove them when they're a nuisance/problem/causing issues for others ... as opposed to sitting on their arses drinking coffee watching them ruin it for everyone else.

The reality is, without parental intervention, eventually a little kid would think, "bugger this," and slide down, bulldozing the slide-climbers. Lesson learnt.
The problem now is that those of us who do parent have almost done too good a job. With our children giving up on games because they "know" not to tell off the younger child or physically remove them (in whatever way).
Oh and for PP, South Asian kids are also massively indulged in this way, it is not unique to Europe or the UK. Polo matches with kids running around by the field, running around in front of the cinema screen, out until all hours, overtired and killing the mood in restaurants... It's definitely not just the UK suffering!

My husband was pushing our grandchild quite high on a swing and had to rush to instantly stop it so that a toddler did not get hit in the head. The parent was on their phone.
As an oldie I am stunned by people on their phones when out with children. I can’t believe the number of parents on a call when pushing a small child in a push chair. They should be chatting and engaged with the child, pointing out things as they go along.
There is some debate about who are the worst behaved ( grandparents/ fathers etc ) at parks. In my opinion, in London parks, the professional nannys are the ones always on their phones and not looking after their charge.

The OP is neither smug or resentful @wishingplenty she's just fed up of disengaged parents like a lot of us are

Please look for the parent and go raise your issue with them instead. I feel like some parents go for the child to avoid confronting the parent. The parent is responsible for the child so go speak to them, whilst removing your child from the situation/looking after your child. I had another parent tell my son (age 4) he was "naughty" and a situation where a parent told their child loudly in front of me that my son was "unkind". But actually he is autistic and couldn't cope with their child invading his personal space (as 4 year olds do) and in the other situation the other child removed a toy from his line up of toys at a play cafe (which is known to cause meltdowns in autistic children). My son is my first experience of autism so often I am learning about him in social situations as well, and even adopting all possible parenting measures these incidents can still occur. He used to be fine with me watching from a few metres away, but now we have to be within arms reach as he can be so unpredictable. I'd rather parents raised complaints with me directly than approach my child without any knowledge of his background, age or neurodiversity. I mentioned in an earlier post he also looks much older than he is, so what another parent thinks is age appropriate may be wrong.

definitely not!!!! Dunno what @Heronwatcher is on about

my opinion might be unwelcome and not agreed with, and i am not for one second advocating for bringing back smacking before anyone starts, however, as someone that has had SS called on us for disciplining my kids in public (we physically removed our 5yo from a soft play who was having a violent meltdown and had to restrain him, SS were understanding and it went no further), i have to say, a lot of parents are scared to discipline in public because of how people judge/tut/view doing ANYTHING with kid these days.

THey're all viewed as precious little darlings who you mustn't shout at or upset.

It's all gone very much the wrong way. Modern parenting and rules do not make for kids with manners.

We live across from a small playground - the type designed for toddlers, very small slides, little playhouse in the shape of a ship with some swings. The type that would be boring and too small for kids over 5. Rather than walking 5 minutes to the full sized playground you get some parents of older kids bring them in and then just sit on their phones or chat to their friends while the older kids swing from the top
of the ship, climb the wrong way up the slide and ride scooters around the play area at speed. The kids are acting out as they’re bored and the area isn’t suitable which is massively annoying as it is terrifying when they are dangling over toddlers heads of hurling at them at speed.

I had an 8 year old girl get really aggressive and angry - giving out that my toddler was too slow going up the climbing frame for the slide. I gently explained to her that she was little once and you can’t shout at little kids. She got very frustrated - she then proceeded to follow us for 20mins and jump in front of my daughter and grab whatever she was about to play with so definite mental health issues and no parent in sight, it was scary and obsessive behaviour.

There is a play place near us that has the play part and the cafe separated so you have to leave the play area to have a drink and they have signs everywhere saying an adult must remain with the kid - it is relatively large - about 10% of parents ignore the sign and leave their 2/3 year olds alone in there and they are always the worst for snatching and hitting, the toddlers often come over to us with toys too looking for any adult to play with them. It’s depressing that kids that young are abandoned alone in a room with 20-30 strangers with a parent occasionally glancing over a gate in the distance.

I always wondered whether this attitude was a British thing, because since living abroad I've not experienced it at all. Even young children are incredibly patient with younger children and toddlers, because they're taught to be - not to mention adults! Racing to move a toddler or trying to sit them still here would be seen as so weird - people would tell you not to worry and just be smiling at the toddler.

Toddlers are supposed to do these things! It's a natural and healthy way to behave! It's an innocent little baby exploring the world. Just chill. It's not a big deal. Your older child can be taught patience, and to understand that little babies aren't able to understand how to behave like older children. It's absurd to imply that the toddler is doing anything wrong, or that the parent will be able to make them sit quietly and not touch anything that isn't theirs/get in anyone's way, etc.

What a lot of sense you are speaking @rainbowstardrops . Not welcome on here lol 😂

My son has just started reception, he isn't the most perfectly behaved child (at least not at home 🤣) but he'll come home and say, in a genuinely confused tone, about how some of the kids "never listen" or "never do what the teacher asks" or whatever. It makes me smile a bit because, like I say, he's no perfect angel child and I explain some kids find different things hard, like sitting still or listening etc. My son is autistic and thrives on the structure and routine of school, in fact he finds the "free flow" times the hardest bits of the day.

The people who suffer most from those who don't 'parent', to use a phrase, are the parents themselves. If not when they are nursery or early primary school age, then later on.

The teacher's observation does not surprise me.

I expect if schools had been able to resume in person teaching at least for a day a week in the summer term of 2020, some of the issues would be less.

Oh my god 😂. I didn't know the parents of these tiny bullies in training would be interested enough in parenting to be on mumsnet.

Fast forward 10 years, these exact same toddlers will be smashing up the estate and holding other teens at knifepoint for their bikes.

I don't think it's a trend, I think there have always been parents like this.

The only difference is that we have become more individualistic so in the past people would have commented directly to the parents whereas now they gossip behind their back instead.

No. The only difference now is the minority have become the majority. Distracted parents have become the norm.

@WonderingWanda thing is though you can also be putting yourself in the firing line then. Was at a sand pit once where a little girl of around 2 was repeatedly throwing sand. Her mother and grandmother just said her name in a semi admonishing way but didn't redirect or tell her to stop. She threw it right in my 2 year olds face so I went over to check she was okay and at that point the other child put sand on my back and was then wiping my back to remove the sand. At this point I turned to her and said 'no thank you' and her parents got very defensive 'she's only wiping sand off you!', to which I replied 'yes, sand she has thrown there. Please keep her away from me I don't want her touching me or my daughter or throwing sand at us again'. They got SO passive aggressive, 'jesus christ she's only 2, not even 2...you need to chill out, scared of a bit of sand, FFS!', laughing at me, talking loudly amongst themselves about helicopter parents and what a tiger mum I must think I was. Kids never going to learn how to have fun with mummy hovering over them. It was really horrid. My daughter still had sand in her eyes so I said 'oh that must be really uncomfortable let's go get some water to fix it' and they shouted 'are you still going on about that?! Get a life will you!'. Their child continued to throw sand at other kids. We left very shortly after and they were yelling at us 'yeah you should probably leave if you're scared of a little sand!'.

Not saying it's not the right thing to say something rather than just let them get away with it. But has made me think twice about redirecting behaviour or communicating with parents who seem to have no desire to actively parent.

Yes it’s a well known path from blocking the slide or joining another child on a trampoline, to holding up other teens at knifepoint.

oh please, yes mine are older, but i remember ALL to well what they were like as toddlers, and i have also worked with nursery/reception ages from 2-4 for years. Mine were probably worse as they're both autistic.

Yes its developmental, so you adopt developmentally appropriate ways of handling it, you don't just ignore it and let them run amok. So they'll scream and tantrum? So fucking what, let them. They'll also quickly learn that it doesn't get them anything, but as parents we have to also remember it shouldn't stop us from handling their behaviour.

Wanting to avoid them screaming doesn't mean you shouldn't tell them no, or remove them from a situation where they're disrupting someone else.

Bollocks. And good luck when your toddler grows up. As a school employee, I know exactly how children who aren’t disciplined as toddlers and children grow up. I can spot the children who were allowed to do their own thing miles away. They still try to do what they like with no regard for others; they still disrupt; they still tantrum when they don’t get their own way; they still take from others; they reject any type of discipline. And quite often the parents will still argue it’s all normal and that we are being unreasonable expecting anything else.