The way some people let toddlers behave......

[Purpleturtle46]

I have own 3 kids in primary and secondly so still completely remember what the toddler stage was like but recently I have noticed on several occasions that people just let their toddlers run wild. Yesterday for example I was at a farm park with my youngest who has just turned 8 and the following are examples from just one day.

-DD in big sandpit quite focussed on building something and toddlers allowed on several occasions to come over and knock it down, no intervention from parents.

-huge slide from top of 3 story fort thing with big queue of kids at top, none can go down as toddler standing at bottom. Mum comes and removes toddler after a while and process repeats itself several more times.

-lots of sunken trampolines in ground, one child per trampoline. DD waits patiently to have a go, toddler then gets on with her. Parents seem to find this cute, DD gives up and just gets off.

-a throw a hoop over the witches hat game. Toddler running in-between the hats so DD has to wait until toddler is removed after some half hearted attempts to shout across from the picnic bench Dad is sitting at.

-older baby crawling around the middle of the floor in a cafe, waiter carrying 2 huge plates of food nearly trips over them.

And that's just one day. Obviously it's not the fault of the toddlers but when my kids (3 under 4 so not easy) were that age I constantly had to talk to them about turn taking etc. Yeah of course it's hard work but that's how they they learn. Just getting fed up of older children being expected to tolerate this behaviour and parents finding it funny and cute! I suspect my DD is probably mildly autistic and although she coped ok with all this I could tell it was frustrating her as she always waits her turn, I'm sure that would be annoying for any child. I am always torn between showing my kids a balance of being tolerant but also standing up for yourself and not being a people pleaser which I probably am guilty of.

The worst one I saw recently was at 2 of my kids' trampolining club award afternoon where the coach was making a speech and a toddler was being allowed to run around between the kids and not sitting with parents in spectator area. The kids found it funny so were giggling while the poor coach was trying to make a nice speech about the kids, she was clearly pissed off, fair enough! Again all attention on this toddler with the parents doing nothing to stop it and looking on at the toddler all gooey eyed!

Has anyone else noticed this trend?

No, this is nonsense. You can quite easily teach 2yo’s how to behave. Have a look around, everyone else manages… if you can’t, have a look at yourself

Inadequate parents rearing feral kids. It exists. 🤷‍♀️

@Wishingplenty

Yeah I agree with this. The baby phase does literally last 3 years, after that you can start to slowly teach manners, boundaries etc. Before that it really is futile and a waste of energy for everyone.

This sort of thinking is the reason why there are so many badly behaved children.

Yes,this is a very common occurrence nowadays. I've noticed more and more frequently that when I go in coffee shops, cafes or restaurants, parents just let their kids do exactly as they like, despite the fact that it may be detrimental to the other customers,or even dangerous. An example that I see regularly is small kids of about 3/4 running up and down the isles of coffee shops, sometimes even on scooters,while people are carrying trays of hot drinks around. Parents do absolutely nothing,just sitting and smiling indulgently at them. No doubt they'd be threatening to sue if their little darling ended up with hot coffee all over them. Another thing that drives me mad is young kids screaming,just for the hell of it. Not babies,but children of 3,4 or 5 years old, basically old enough to be told to stop it. A few days ago I thought my eardrums were going to rupture because some child would not stop screeching repeatedly. Mother just encouraged him.

You can't. 2 year olds are babies. People think they can out train a human baby's natural development, but they can't. Oh I have witnessed plenty People try, and let me tell you the grown up always looks ridiculous, unable to accept a child for the age it is because it literally does not suit our society.

Forcing a 2 year old to say sorry for snatching a toy. 2 year old screaming with frustration, not with the situation but with the adult because he literally can't comprehend what he has done wrong, at this point the 2 year old is screaming because he is confused, but adult thinks he still wants the toy, then scoops him up angrily and takes him away as "punishment" it is all so painful to watch, and adults only do this to fit into societies "norms" which is anything but normal for a two year old. I have witnessed countless adults literally arm wrestle an under two to prove their point, to get the toy back. It is horrifying really that this is classed as civilsed bbehaviour by adults.

You are an ineffectual parent, but the whole thread is people telling you this, and you don’t get it

I am actually the very opposite. I go through each phase and stage and treat the child accordingly. Not trying to skip stages to suit myself and everyone else around me. If people can't handle that then tough. Society would function better if everyone was like me and unlike the OP who sounds sanctimonious and rude.

Of course two year olds are babies. But I would say that this is the very age when responsible parents are extra vigilant. They have yet to learn right from wrong, and perhaps many are too young to fully comprehend when they have done something they shouldn’t. But that’s were attentive parents can pre empt certain problems, such as not letting them get anywhere near the bottom of a slide, or stepping in straight away if sand is being thrown. Or putting a rein on a child that likes to run off, or stopping them from teasing an animal. It’s not rocket science, it’s thinking ahead, minimising risk and upsetting other children.

Forcing a 2 year old to say sorry for snatching a toy. 2 year old screaming with frustration, not with the situation but with the adult because he literally can't comprehend what he has done wrong, at this point the 2 year old is screaming because he is confused, but adult thinks he still wants the toy, then scoops him up angrily and takes him away as "punishment" it is all so painful to watch, and adults only do this to fit into societies "norms" which is anything but normal for a two year old. I have witnessed countless adults literally arm wrestle an under two to prove their point, to get the toy back. It is horrifying really that this is classed as civilsed bbehaviour by adults.

Absolutely normal for a two year old to snatch. Not normal to just let them - should the other kid just give up the toy because a 2yo wants it?! You take it and give it back, say "ah ah, don't snatch" and distract them. Ideally the parent will be alert and prevent them snatching in the first place.

I assume this might have been mentioned but haven't managed to RTFT but I wouldn't be so quick to judge in this situation.
Most 6/7 year olds wouldn't behave like this and I would assume some kind of neurodiversity.

My delightful son is 5 and is probably autistic (massive waiting list!). He gets overstimulated and will meltdown in shops. He loses control and can get violent. He is the sweetest most gentle boy when calm.
We are consistent, we don't buy the item he's become fixated on (often something inappropriate for a child) and I always assumed that when people saw me struggling and wrestling a stressed and melting down child out of a shop they would feel sympathy and have a bit of understanding rather than judge me as being a bad parent.

I fully agree with the OP. We have always been pretty strict in terms of the children's behaviour and always think about the impact on others. We teach manners and respect but sometimes DS might act like we haven't.

I think most people understand that 2 year olds don't have the cognitive skills to understand many concepts and situations, and so can't be reasoned with. That's why we don't send toddlers to prison or arrest them for biting the neighbour or kicking the dog. We KNOW this! Most people have different expectations for a two year old than they would have for a nine year old and everyone expects very small children to have strong emotional reactions, poor safety awareness and uncontrollable impulsivity.
I don't know anybody who doesn't take this into consideration when parenting their two year old.

And yes, once a child gets to a certain age when they are more able to process the world, they will start to understand concepts such as manners, sharing etc. Everyone understands that parenting gets easier when children start to mature as they come out of toddlerhood and that their behaviour becomes more easily managed. Most people understand that this is all developmentally relative and adapt their parenting accordingly.

They still move their kid from the bottom of a slide or pick them up if they are running around a pub!

My DS is ASD and I can tell you that he did everything OP described from when he started to walk until 8-10 years old. Ofcourse I tried to teach him, my younger DS behaved perfectly at 3 so for some kids it's easy. But since my DS was disruptive I ALWAYS followed him around, snatched him away when he put himself in danger or bothered someone. Sure it was hard work and some mums told me to sit down and let him play. But I saw it as a learning experience for him when I explained how to behave and also I don't think it's fair to him nor to the other kids to have a youngster who don't understand basic rules of behaviour running around wild. This goes for all toddlers as well. Most of them need very close supervision and some parents just don't seem to care🤷‍♀️

Yep no point telling a 2 year old to say sorry that is abstract to them at that age. However allowing them to snatch from another child just taught the other child snatch what you want when you want it! Surely you would tell the 2 year old something and return the toy to the child it was snatched from. At the very least I would apologise to the other child and explain to mine we need to ask nicely and then model what you want. If you can't be bothered or don't have the energy to actually parent then stay home don't inflict your lack of parenting on other people and other children.

We used baby sign with some of our children this helped a great deal with avoiding tantrums, also learning what causes tantrums, hanger, tiredness, being overwhelmed, being out too much etc you learn with your child.

When I was too tired and I knew my dc was going through a phase of darting about touching things etc I would avoid certain places. I had people complement me on my children's behaviour but it was a lot of work. When I didn't want to watch them like a hawk I would on that day stay home make sure it was safe and let them bounce around draw play run whatever they needed.

Gentle parenting/attachment parenting doesn't mean sit on a phone and leave the kids to do whatever!

Parents still need to keep children safe. You still need to make sure you hold their hand next to a busy road. If you can manage that you can manage making sure they sit if you take them to a cafe!
I would take mine to cafes sometimes and I always took something for them to do too. Once we got to the age/point where it would be difficult maybe they were extra boisterous and needed to run around we would go to the park instead.
It was a tough few years sometimes very lonely but it was worth it.
My youngest recently started secondary school and his first and foremost complaint is the children who don't listen to the teachers and just swear and mess around so the teacher spends most of their time managing behaviour rather than teaching!

Parents being on mobile phones has caused a lot of problems for children and their development.

How many times do we read on threads here about parents coming home and then not engaging with their children.

My DC didn't do the owning the playground thing because my eldest was more interested in socialising and making friends with children and families that weren't his and my youngest is shy like I am and would never do something as bold as sitting at the bottom of the slide. She was ok nice offered a snack and looked at the Mum offering with suspicion. Not every child is bombastic and self assured at 2 without internalised boundaries. I personally think lots of this is just personality and character. If my eldest did something that was a bit socially disruptive as it would never be my youngest as she was stuck to me like glue, I would just explain gently that we have other options that are socially acceptable- I'm not sure what the big deal is, he is really bright and nearly 18 now but just understood even at 2 so I'm not convinced at 2 some children don't understand reasoning. He was literally engaging in sarcasm at 20 months as I have a video where her pretends to run a music club he used to attend and calls out all the names of the class he throws in the name, Justine and I ask him who is Justine and he giggles as he is kidding me as he is referring to Justine aka Mr Tumble. We laugh together and it is very sweet. My DD was well aware of not liking some people at 20 months to, most people actually and it is her character to be suspicious. I just am not convinced the developmental stage is all ignorant at this age.

Justin not Justine.

Someone once said to me that, if you are parenting small people properly it’s the hardest job you’ll ever do.

2 year olds will snatch, and tantrum, and want to run around places. That’s 2 normal 2 year old behaviour. Doesn’t mean the parents should not try to redirect that unwanted behaviour in some way, gently if possible but if things get out of hand, then a firm ‘no’ and deal with the ensuing tantrum. 2 year olds absolutely can and do learn how to behave (mine did). But it requires work, constant bloody work, and some days that means you go home in the middle of your shop / day out / play date. It’s for a brief period of time.
it doesn’t mean you get to shrug your shoulders and ‘wait until they are old enough to understand’.

oh, and as an aside, ASC / ASD / autism etc do not automatically mean bad behaviour. My autistic DD is very well behaved because she doesn’t really understand society, but knows if she sticks rigidly to ‘the rules’ she will be ok.

I agreee with your last phrase that ASD does not mean bad behaviour. Mine stick religiously to the rules as well. The hard thing is explaining the rules since they don't have transferrable knowledge you have to explain basically the same thing over and over😓

I was in a cafeteria when a children ran into a woman carrying a tray of hot drinks, she had just picked them up from the counter and turned around as the child ran into her, she had no chance to see them or take action.. I can still hear that child's screams today as the scalding hot coffee went all over them. The only person to blame in that day was the mother of the child. Her fault nobody else's.

Despite the dozens and dozens of responses from experienced parents telling you to the contrary?

Congratulations you are that parent. Rest assured that other parents will recognise that you are too, and they will avoid you and your child.

Wishingplenty "I usually find the lower working classes worse for thinking children should just "behave" hence the reason for all the shouting and name calling."

Hyacinth Bucket I presume, taking a break from candle lit suppers to post on Mumsnet.

The ones letting their kids play on the luggage carousel tho..🙄✈️

This.

I haven't forgotten that I never allowed my kids to run riot and ruin other peoples days out/meals etc.

I don’t disagree with the OP but it’s a tough one. There are nuances here.

IMO, in most situations out of the house, any child under about 4(ish) should be being almost constantly watched and monitored. Parent needs to step in immediately if they are exhibiting the behaviours mentioned in the OP. Yes, at 2, they probably wouldn’t understand it as well as they will at 3 or 4 but it creates good habits for the parent as well as the child. I wouldn’t, for example, get angry or cross at my 2 year old for behaving in this way but would keep repeating they shouldn’t do it. At 4, I probably would start getting a little cross as they should be able to understand by then.

Parenting toddlers is tough. My own lured me in to a false sense of security as he was an angel at 2. Could easily take him anywhere and he never put a toe out of line. Was always very chilled. Once he turned three I didn’t recognise him! Oh the tantrums! I should probably add that those only ever happened at home, though and never when we were out of the house. Although bear in mind he was 2 - 4 during the Covid years so not too many opportunities to take him anywhere.
Now he is older, my expectations of him are higher. I don’t think ‘gentle parenting’ works when they get passed 5. This is when you need to be MUCH firmer with them IMO. Nowadays, there is no ‘let’s discuss your feelings on why you don’t want to eat your dinner’ and far more ‘just eat your bloody dinner’ (I obviously don’t say the ‘bloody’ out loud!)

Oooh yes I second this too. Lay the ground work when they are toddlers and (hopefully) they are much easier to parent when they get to 4/5 and older. I found this with mine… or else I was just lucky. Don’t suppose you can ever know!