The way some people let toddlers behave......

[Purpleturtle46]

I have own 3 kids in primary and secondly so still completely remember what the toddler stage was like but recently I have noticed on several occasions that people just let their toddlers run wild. Yesterday for example I was at a farm park with my youngest who has just turned 8 and the following are examples from just one day.

-DD in big sandpit quite focussed on building something and toddlers allowed on several occasions to come over and knock it down, no intervention from parents.

-huge slide from top of 3 story fort thing with big queue of kids at top, none can go down as toddler standing at bottom. Mum comes and removes toddler after a while and process repeats itself several more times.

-lots of sunken trampolines in ground, one child per trampoline. DD waits patiently to have a go, toddler then gets on with her. Parents seem to find this cute, DD gives up and just gets off.

-a throw a hoop over the witches hat game. Toddler running in-between the hats so DD has to wait until toddler is removed after some half hearted attempts to shout across from the picnic bench Dad is sitting at.

-older baby crawling around the middle of the floor in a cafe, waiter carrying 2 huge plates of food nearly trips over them.

And that's just one day. Obviously it's not the fault of the toddlers but when my kids (3 under 4 so not easy) were that age I constantly had to talk to them about turn taking etc. Yeah of course it's hard work but that's how they they learn. Just getting fed up of older children being expected to tolerate this behaviour and parents finding it funny and cute! I suspect my DD is probably mildly autistic and although she coped ok with all this I could tell it was frustrating her as she always waits her turn, I'm sure that would be annoying for any child. I am always torn between showing my kids a balance of being tolerant but also standing up for yourself and not being a people pleaser which I probably am guilty of.

The worst one I saw recently was at 2 of my kids' trampolining club award afternoon where the coach was making a speech and a toddler was being allowed to run around between the kids and not sitting with parents in spectator area. The kids found it funny so were giggling while the poor coach was trying to make a nice speech about the kids, she was clearly pissed off, fair enough! Again all attention on this toddler with the parents doing nothing to stop it and looking on at the toddler all gooey eyed!

Has anyone else noticed this trend?

Absolute tosh. You must be a truly ineffectual parent if you can't ( or more likely won') control your child. I take it if a class full of toddlers at your child's daycare wasn't controlled and continually thumped/bit/ kicked your child you would shrug and say hey ho never mind? I bet you wouldn't, you would be screaming blue murder.

I was in a shop yesterday with just turned 1 year old gd walking just in front of me. A little girl (about 3)was passing and stopped, my gd started shouting at her. Obviously I told her (in an age appropriate way) not to be shouting at the child and give her a little wave hello, which she did. Mother was smiling, I was smiling, kids were smiling. Some aul bat behind me tells me not to be giving out to her, she's only little 😂😂 didn't go down too well when she was told to mind her business.

Ok, thanks for the first paragraph that's a helpful way to think of it. No need for the jab at the end.

I do agree with you here.

They will stop tantruming when they don't get their own way, when they're ready to do so. The same with impulse control.

All we can do is make sure when they tantrum, we don't give in - because then they'll know it gets them what they want. But the actual tantrum, won't stop until they're ready developmentally.

Impulse control is also something that gets better over time. Of course we tell them to wait their turn etc and model the correct behaviour, but I think it takes time until they get it and we don't control when that time comes and I don't think it's much to do with what we actually do. I think when kids start to reason a bit, then what we as parents do and teach them, makes a difference. At least that's how it feels with my two.

It could be that I parented them correctly and that's why they grew out of certain behaviours but I just don't feel like it was that.

@Wishingplenty I'm sorry to add to the many many responses to your post but.... I have in no way forgotten just how awful the toddler years can be, and I know perfectly well that you can't just ask a toddler not to do something. If your child is causing mayhem or getting in people's way it is up to you, as the parent, to stop them doing it. Physically, if necessary. I remember my own toddler having a tantrum in Sainsbury's - I ended up picking her up and stowing her under my armpit while doing the remainder of my shopping. Of course I tried the reasonable approach first, but that doesn't always work with a toddler.

It's this but it's older kids too, I have a toddler and I stopped going to certain soft plays near me in part because there were bigger kids running like bulldozers through the baby only areas with no parents in sight for example

@Wishingplenty

The reason their toddler stopped was because month by month and week by week their child was growing up and got older, then they moved onto the next phase of their life, which children naturally progress to.

So parents are what? Just bystanders to their children's development? Do they just wander through life with their children, watching them change and raise themselves?

🙄

I think when the children are really young, there's not much you can do but keep them safe when they're having big feelings and not give into them constantly.

Then from 3 ish ( this differs ) they start to be a tiny bit more reasonable, day by day.

All my two year old knew when he tantrumed was his massive upset. It just eventually got better as he matured. Same with my daughter. I don't think I did anything except be there and keep them safe to make that stop.

The more reasonable they become, the more you can explain the world to them and how it works.

and my comments would be the same: you have to keep your eye on them and guide, teach and remove them when they are acting inappropriately.

I don't get how so many people, on a parenting forum, are so deaf to this perfectly normal advice

Imagine the wrath the parents would have gave the waiter had he accidentally spilled something hot on that baby.

Please look for the parent and go raise your issue with them instead. I feel like some parents go for the child to avoid confronting the parent. The parent is responsible for the child so go speak to them, whilst removing your child from the situation/looking after your child. I had another parent tell my son (age 4) he was "naughty" and a situation where a parent told their child loudly in front of me that my son was "unkind". But actually he is autistic and couldn't cope with their child invading his personal space

I won't stop adressing the child directly if the parent isn't doing it. If they are too small to understand or autistic or ND or whatever: the parent needs to parent. Absent that? I am the village. Parents can do their job, or i will say my piece.

Sadly there are a lot of people who have children but don't parent them.

@aintnohollabackgurl

I think when the children are really young, there's not much you can do but keep them safe when they're having big feelings and not give into them constantly.

I agree, but that is parenting. Not just standing by thinking how cute they are when they're disrupting other people's lives as in the OP's examples. I personally cringe at the phrase "big feelings" though.

Then from 3 ish ( this differs ) they start to be a tiny bit more reasonable, day by day.

Don't think I could wait until 3 for my child to be mostly reasonable. Yeh, they'll throw a wobbly now and again but from 2 you should be able to simply reason with a child. I imagine it's harder with a child who doesn't have the language skills for it at that age though, but any toddler can understand being immediately removed from a situation if they're behaving in a way that they shouldn't. Throw sand at another child's face? Immediately removed from sandpit with a firm "no, we don't throw sand at people." That happened twice for my (then) 1 and a half year old to never do it again. Other things took a bit longer but they get there quicker with a parent who consistently does something about it than with a parent who just waits for them to grow out of it. I have friends who are very laissez faire with their toddlers. No surprises as to how their children behave.

The more reasonable they become, the more you can explain the world to them and how it works.

You can't just wait for that to happen though. They become more reasonable and have the language to talk about things because you start those "conversations" with them before they can even talk. The complexity of the language can then grow with them.

I think there's some crossed wired here now between "bad behaviour" for want of a better word - like hitting, snatching, pushing in etc, and normal toddler tantrums/no impulse control/boundary pushing.

Tantrums at being told No are really normal, a toddler running around with no concept of others is normal, a toddler not immediately understanding taking turns etc is normal.

The problem arises when parents do not step in to guide them. When they're allowed to try and climb up a slide, preventing others from going down. When they're snatching from other kids with no one teaching them not to do that.

Gradually, as they get older, the tantrums will (in the majority of cases) get less intense and eventually cease as they are more able to understand and be reasoned with. But if they are not taught how to behave, they cannot learn.

Don't think I could wait until 3 for my child to be mostly reasonable. Yeh, they'll throw a wobbly now and again but from 2 you should be able to simply reason with a child. I imagine it's harder with a child who doesn't have the language skills for it at that age though, but any toddler can understand being immediately removed from a situation if they're behaving in a way that they shouldn't. Throw sand at another child's face? Immediately removed from sandpit with a firm "no, we don't throw sand at people." That happened twice for my (then) 1 and a half year old to never do it again. Other things took a bit longer but they get there quicker with a parent who consistently does something about it than with a parent who just waits for them to grow out of it. I have friends who are very laissez faire with their toddlers. No surprises as to how their children behave.

I did say it depends but I think you're expecting a lot from a 2 year old. I also removed my kids immediately after throwing sand etc, they still continued doing even beyond 2-3 occasionally - no matter how many times I said no and gave a consequence - such as leaving. It's not as black and white as you make it, with all children.

Now they don't throw sand anymore or snatch etc. but it took A LONG time and emotional regulation that they needed to just develop into. Same with snatching. It would be great if you just had to tell a child once- but it simply won't work with some. Apparently I was also a child that just needed telling once. Mine just weren't like that. Not because I didn't try !

I just had to wait until they were ready emotionally to see better behaviour. That's just my opinion, having raised two.

Of course there are many parents who want to pat themselves on the back for their superior parenting which tames their toddler. But I don't buy it for a second. Natural temperament and time.

Na cos I've seen much older children throwing tantrums and behaving like toddlers because their parents have effectively taught them that this sort of behaviour is acceptable or that it will get what they want

Also I don't understand what their development has to do with the lack of parenting, like the trampoline example, no one is expecting a toddler to know not to jump on when someone else is on there, but it should be expected that the parent will remove the child.

Thank you. x

Definitely. I think things got a bit side tracked on this thread ( partly my fault ) but yes in this scenario it's definitely not about development etc. the parent should just get the kid off the trampoline until it's his or her turn.

@aintnohollabackgurl

Of course there are many parents who want to pat themselves on the back for their superior parenting which tames their toddler. But I don't buy it for a second. Natural temperament and time.

Perhaps, but it worked on mine. I see too many parents with terribly behaved children and I can see it's a direct consequence of their lack of parenting. If that's me patting myself on the back, I'll take it. At least my child behaves and I deal with him when he doesn't. His temperament is far from placid and biddable. I parent him.

I see so many parents working really hard at being good parents. I see ' distracted ' parents 5 percent of the time. Most of the time I see parents doing their best and some kids that are more spirited and others that are calmer.

@aintnohollabackgurl

I see so many parents working really hard at being good parents. I see ' distracted ' parents 5 percent of the time. Most of the time I see parents doing their best and some kids that are more spirited and others that are calmer

That's great 🤷🏻‍♀️ and such a specific percentage too. That phrase "spirited" 🙄 my son is spirited. He's not a spoilt little horror who gets to run rings around everyone however.

I see those parents you're talking about too. I also see parents who consistently do not reprimand toddlers for lashing out at other children, let their toddlers/young children hit them, do the "oh no, please don't do that" type of parenting from a distance instead of sorting the matter out immediately, give false threats and don't follow through, and generally let their children rule over them. I've watched these children consistently poorly parented and I'm now seeing them turn into utter terrors because of this.

I'm not sure why you're adamant this doesn't exist. Good parents are everywhere. Shit ones too.

Some parents have made a choice not to say, "No" to their toddlers as it is negative, whereas saying, "yes" is creative or by not saying no it is allowing a young child to fulfill that curiosity. Mine are teens but the aforementioned parenting was around in the 00s and 10s so it is just the way some parents are IMO. It is also my experience that it was the same old toddlers at the bottom of the slide😆

I do agree with this.
I never did the constant talking back and forth analysing or correcting toddlers in each situation when mine were small, neither i did the constant praising as I find it very fake. I always praised and I still do only when they make an actual effort. I know its very normal in the UK but its cultural. When mine were todlers i basically kept them safe until the age of 3. They didn't hit other kids or snatched toys, so i didnt have to intervene in that sense, of course i would have if i needed to.

The issue with mine is that they wouldn't sit still, they were constantly moving, from the moment they woke up, and i didnt "train" them to sit still. I am from the South of Europe and thats not the way is done. Parents don't intervene every 30 seconds the toddler is doing something. You wait till is 3/ 4 to start reasoning with them.

When they started school my children adapted to the new environment without any issue. They sat still for hours. They wait for their turn and were focused. Teachers always had nice things to say, still now as teenagers. They made good friends. They did and still their school work without any fuss. They play sports.
People here would be surprised knowing that kids can learn things later on in their development, when they are ready, or at least mine did.

Yeah I agree with this. The baby phase does literally last 3 years, after that you can start to slowly teach manners, boundaries etc. Before that it really is futile and a waste of energy for everyone.