So if your friend lost 5 stone in 6 months .. would you wonder how ?

[AboutVattime]

Just inquisitive.. my best friend has always been obese. About 22 stone. I have worried about her health silently for a very long time.. she started Mountjaro in April and is now 14 st. I am completely thrilled for her . Her blood pressure is now 'upper' but not ' see your healthcare provider' .. her heart 'murmurs' have ceased.. I am worried that when she come to the end of her treatment she's will just gain it all again. It is without a miraculous drug.. she has struggled to afford...she is incredibly good with money and financially planned every inch of her journey so that her treatment equalled less than her cost of food consumption.. but only in the short term ( she planned 8 months but goal in 6)

My AIBU is ..I see the amazing difference , she is so happy for the first time in a long time after years of weight watchers, slimming world, Cambridge diet.. low carb, NHS gastric band..(15 years ago which helped but only ever got her to 16 stone before piling it back on) .. she has found one of the Mountjaro providers who will prescribe a maintenance dose...

But she can't afford it long term. It will be £189 per month without a discount.. AIBU to say I can pay this for her. She is my very best friend . I love her new found sense of self confidence.. and don't want it to go.. the money is not an issue for me . I am extremely comfortable and struggle to spend. However would love to help someone I love very much.

Just for complete transparency I had crept over into 'unhealthy' zone as also had osteoporosis in knees. Also took Mountjaro for 2 months and know how incredible it is. I have kept it off for 5 months without a maintenance dose .. it just reinforced healthy eating recipes for me . . But I haven't been morbidly obese

I think this is an extremely difficult subject to discuss rationally because it’s so emotive.

Individuals who are on Mounjaro or similar are understandably extremely defensive. I completely understand that no one wants this wonder drug whipped away from them especially when it is often succeeding where decades of dieting has failed.

As I understand it, there’s a lack of data around its use in non-diabetic individuals who are within a relatively healthy BMI range.

I also understand that the speed at which individuals lose weight on these injections is what increases the risk of pancreatic complications and gallbladder problems.

For full disclosure, I’m a right hefty chunk 😂 I’m currently dieting and have cleaned up my diet. It’s going well so far (about 8 weeks). I considered the injections but I don’t want to risk pancreatic or gallbladder complications- they’re both quite nasty. I wouldn’t take them if they were free. Not because I’m superior in any way, but because I just know I’d be the person with serious complications- I had a blood clot from the COVID jab! I have terrible luck 😂

I understand the health implications of obesity. And I understand why, for some individuals who struggle to lose weight, the injections may be the lesser of two evils.

My issue is that it’s touted around like a casual lifestyle drug. I can’t escape reading about the bloody injections - everyone seems to be taking them!! And I include people with only a small amount of weight to shift. Pick the right supplier and you won’t have to verify the information you provide, and informing your GP isn’t compulsory. Its frighteningly easy to get hold of and people are very nonchalant about lying to get it prescribed.

I think if it was just being used as intended for those who are seriously overweight, the benefits would outweigh the risks. But it’s not being used alongside other measures, and now we’re seeing an increasing number of people who say they will be on a “maintenance dose” for life. Those who are only a tiny bit overweight are using it as an easy option.

I completely understand there are those with metabolic disorders and other medical conditions where these jabs really could make a huge life difference and are necessary.

But aggressive marketing and the MLM-style techniques that give people huge discounts for referring others seems unethical, even though it’s not illegal. I’ve seen posts from people basically saying they are going to get their MJ for £50 a month for the next 6months because they’ve got so many people to sign up.

It’s not what I think is right for a medical treatment that could have serious consequences. And the freebies/discounts don’t encourage people to be honest about their experiences. Independent reviews often talk about experiencing pretty horrible side effects - it’s amazing how no one with a discount code to share has any of these side effects….

I think there’s a place for MJ but I don’t think it’s quite right at the moment. It’s too easily accessed by people it was never designed to treat.

Maybe everything will work out fine and the side effects or complications will be a tiny number of cases. It would be lovely for all concerned and I genuinely wish everyone the very best in losing weight and feeling healthy, however you choose to do it 💐

When the cost of the law suits exceeds their profit it will magically disappear.

cloud pharmacy £138

I dont think its a good idea OP. I have similar situation like you. I’m comfortable and i offered my pay my bestfriend debt. She was in extremely hard situations back then. Because i know she was struggling i said i dont want the money back. But turned out she feel humiliated and feel that i pitied her. Our friendship become sour and we end up not friend anymore. She just avoiding me. So we are not friend anymore but she isnt pay me back aswell. I dont mind about the money but i really feel regret. She was my bestfriend for 15 years🥲

It’s not off-label. It’s licenced by the MHRA for weight loss. I would have thought you’d have known this being involved with clinical sites and all…

I'm not sure this is as reassuring as you think. The MHRA approved OxyContin, requiring that it carries prominent warnings about it's potential addiction.

What many posters on this thread are saying is that unregulated advertising of Mountjaro is skipping over some very important information to allow potential users to weigh up the risks correctly. GP's should be the gatekeepers. But look at how it is being promoted and discounted.

It is not HEALTHY for anyone

I did not say you are lucky

I know two people who have had to have their Pancreas out. TWO

Because of this

You do you

Due to what?

I think that might be a good idea.

I am quite happy to take up a regular appointment, get checked out and get it for the price of an nhs prescription. Far better for me.

The NHS is well known for being extremely helpful to women and not dismissive at all 🙄. Not a problem for me as my GP is supportive. But I can imagine it being a problem for a lot of women.

But then, people will really feel they can stick the boot into people using it. Since the NHS is paying for it.

@ItTook9Years

Amazingly, I’ve still not had Covid. At all. Despite working the whole pandemic on a clinical site. * * Maybe my diet gives me some sort of improved immunity.

This is ridiculous conspiracy level stuff - and really if you believe this it negates anything else you are saying .

It’s just an observation (hence the maybe). Being NHS staff at the time I had 4-5 Covid jabs. Haven’t had any since leaving the NHS and haven’t had Covid either. No conspiracy.

And I’m equally not sure you know how exactly the process of approval works. It’s all about risk v benefit. I’ve worked with the MHRA for almost 40 years, and while they’re certainly not infallible, they’re possibly the strictest medicinal regulatory body in the world. The hoops a drug company has to jump through to get MHRA approval are exhaustive. So I’ll take their opinion over randoms on the internet screeching about thyroid cancer (which the risk for is extremely small).
I do agree about the unregulated advertising though, and the fact that there are back street clinics selling this stuff to their pals (hello Katie Price) is appalling.

@PrincessofWells

But this is how everyone used to eat and the clue might be there was very little ultra processed food around 45 years ago and nearly everyone was slim (not necessarily healthier due to other causes).

When I look back on what we used to eat growing up - we had much smaller portions and less snacks. Plates were much smaller. If I ate that little now, I would be starving. There were UPFs around I think eg angel delight desert. Do you think it's as simple as the way our bread is made ?

@AboutVattime How long are you committing to pay the maintenance dose for? A year? A decade? At 2k+ a year would surgery not be a better option for her with counselling and guidance on disordered eating?

How often/how much angel delight were you eating?

The shift to two working parents has meant an enormous increase in convenience foods, the vast majority of which are heavily processed. I haven’t eaten meat since 1988. Just looking at vegetarian options shows the slip into UPFs. Just look at how much vegetarian food is now manufactured to replicate the taste and texture of meat and what they’re made of. Being veggie used to mean eating lots of vegetables. Now it’s all manner of processed proteins, stabilisers and flavourings.

The increased hunger is partly due to us becoming so detached from our own body’s needs. Often thirst is mistaken for hunger. And a lot of that food processing is to add ingredients that will make you want more. Free bread is given in restaurants because research shows that the people who eat it are far more likely to order dessert. Sugar and artificial sweeteners, including in savoury foods that you wouldn’t add sugar to if making it from scratch, is buggering up your body so that it has no clue what is going on.

And yes, your standard sliced loaf is one of the most highly processed foods you eat.

But you know the Covid jab didn’t stop you getting it, don’t you?

As we established further up. You don’t actually know if you have had covid or not. You could have and just not had symptoms. Possibly because you had yourself injected, multiple times, with something designed to lessen the impact of it.

an injection that is of huge benefit, but can also have some nasty side effects? But in reality the risk of side effects was worth it because of the benefit of having it?

It's not hard to go without eating for 2-3 days a week? What planet are you on ? This sounds like a total extreme of the 'just move more and eat less' . Make people feel there is something wrong with them as they are unable to do something as 'simple' as go without eating for nearly half of the week? I have heard that people find eating within an 8 hour window to be helpful and that is fair enough but this advice is the total extreme of being unrealistic, unhelpful and probably dangerous.

I’m so pleased for your friend .

She must feel fabulous for the first time in absolutely ages ❤️

Yes, of course. I’m in HR. I saw how many vaccinated staff got ill. At the time of the first jab, nobody was thinking about side effects because the fear of dying from COVID was high. (We lost an otherwise healthy and much loved member of staff Easter weekend 2020). It made sense to take the jab when it was the only option for those of us unable to isolate who had vulnerable family members. As a new jab, side effects weren’t fully known.

We tested daily. Then fortnightly (and I’ve continued due to using rush hour Tubes and still having those pesky immunocompromised family members). The odds of me having had Covid and not known are close to zero. (DH has had it twice and DD once so I’ve been exposed to it but never ever had a positive test.)

Maybe I have the NOVID gene they’ve been researching. Maybe eating for health offers some additional protection, I don’t know. I know that eating healthily cannot be a bad thing.

I'm confused about the multiple posts about eating just 600 calories a day. For a long time. Surely that isn't healthy?!
I thought your body needed more than that just to function every day (the brain alone requiring something like 4-500) ?

I do an 84 hour fast every 6-8 weeks. It would have been totally normal for humans to not eat for extended periods. Modern human bodies aren’t radically different to earlier human bodies.

Food marketing is so strong in making you believe you have to eat constantly, isn’t it? Nobody makes any money if you fast.

I completely fucked my metabolism doing the Fast 800 pre-2020. It took me years to fix it.

Yes. We all know what happened.

As you said above you haven’t done regular testing for 2 years. So you don’t actually know if you have never had it.

No one said a healthy diet wouldn’t help or was a bad thing. But your claims here are quite wild for someone who ‘worked in a clinical setting’. Hence why people are turning to these jabs to help them get to a point their diet is healthy. They need a helping hand to get there.

As you say, people were taking a jab without the side effects fully explored. Because the alternative was awful and a risk to life. And yet you object to other people doing the same. Even though GLP1 medications have had huge amounts of studies done on them.

Yet you object massively to other people making a similar choice.