So if your friend lost 5 stone in 6 months .. would you wonder how ?

[AboutVattime]

Just inquisitive.. my best friend has always been obese. About 22 stone. I have worried about her health silently for a very long time.. she started Mountjaro in April and is now 14 st. I am completely thrilled for her . Her blood pressure is now 'upper' but not ' see your healthcare provider' .. her heart 'murmurs' have ceased.. I am worried that when she come to the end of her treatment she's will just gain it all again. It is without a miraculous drug.. she has struggled to afford...she is incredibly good with money and financially planned every inch of her journey so that her treatment equalled less than her cost of food consumption.. but only in the short term ( she planned 8 months but goal in 6)

My AIBU is ..I see the amazing difference , she is so happy for the first time in a long time after years of weight watchers, slimming world, Cambridge diet.. low carb, NHS gastric band..(15 years ago which helped but only ever got her to 16 stone before piling it back on) .. she has found one of the Mountjaro providers who will prescribe a maintenance dose...

But she can't afford it long term. It will be £189 per month without a discount.. AIBU to say I can pay this for her. She is my very best friend . I love her new found sense of self confidence.. and don't want it to go.. the money is not an issue for me . I am extremely comfortable and struggle to spend. However would love to help someone I love very much.

Just for complete transparency I had crept over into 'unhealthy' zone as also had osteoporosis in knees. Also took Mountjaro for 2 months and know how incredible it is. I have kept it off for 5 months without a maintenance dose .. it just reinforced healthy eating recipes for me . . But I haven't been morbidly obese

Not sure there is multiple posts by people only eating 600cals.

Thats one poster and then a lot of posters mentioning it from what I can see.

Yes this is what I don’t understand as that poster was already on 1000 cal long term as a result of gastric sleeve and is now going to be long term on MJ on 600-800 cal??I thought going that low calorie,long term actually causes you damage as your body goes into starvation mode which can even cause organ damage. I think people on v.low cal intake actually experience the brain changes that anorexic people do…there’s a form of anorexia that actually affects obese people on drastic weight loss programmes and I think that lack of insight and awareness is really concerning.

@GreyMember

It's that simple folks. Stop eating processed and refined foods you weren't designed to eat and your body will be healthy. No calorie counting and exercising to lose weight is a waste of time. Calories in calories out is a horrible way to manage your weight.

Well that's completely different advice to not eating at all for 3 days each week ...

Who says it was normal to go for so long not eating?

Because we actually don’t know. For every study that says fasting is great. Plenty say it’s not. And studies are quickly changing. It currently appear fasting might not be great for women. Because our bodies are different. There’s suggestion women can fast but only inline with their cycle.

For every study that says we went days without eating, there’s ones that point out that groups wouldn’t have been living in an area if they could not access food for days at a time.

It might surprise you but I was an athlete until 7 years ago. I also fasted. It didn’t nothing for me. I have an employee who has fell ill twice following a fasting regime. Fasting is also a huge risk for people with medical conditions or eating disorders.

I have PCOS as well as other issues and eating breakfast has been far better for cravings, exhaustion, facial heat growth, muscle maintenance. Fasting was horrific for me. A high protein breakfast has meant that I ca actually function for a full day.

Again, what you did doesn’t not work for everyone. Maybe instead be happy these things worked for you and count yourself lucky rather than pretending everyone could just do what did and it would work for everyone.

We can agree to disagree. They are completely different scenarios.

(is fortnightly testing to this date not regular testing?)

You are regularly testing up to now. Not 2022 as you said before?

You keep omitting and changing information.

No it’s not different. You took a new vaccine on multiple occasions to protect yourself. You took it because the benefit to your health outweighed the risk to your health.

Thats what other people are doing now.

I have a hormonal imbalance (not PCOS but many of the symptoms) and yes, protein rich meals are hugely helpful. I don’t eat breakfast and find fasting extremely helpful to my mental clarity as well as skin elasticity (in my late 40s). I don’t weight train during fasts but I do them during deload weeks.

I don’t know what people have actually tried before jumping on the injectable bandwagon. We do know that the population generally has less food awareness and that convenience food is a significant part of lots of people’s diets now. It probably isn’t coincidental to the increase in obesity.

@ItTook9Years

I do an 84 hour fast every 6-8 weeks. It would have been totally normal for humans to not eat for extended periods. Modern human bodies aren’t radically different to earlier human bodies.

Definitely not for me! I guess I'm interested in the way we ate when I was growing up (it was a different poster who commented about less obesity 45 years back), rather than cave people's lifestyles! I agree with what you said in another post about vegetarian diets and UPFs.

Had a good laugh at lady smug's theory of one.

Based on my theory of one (test subject being my DP), we can all eat thousands of calories a day of shit food and never gain a pound. He eats multiple takeaways a week, huge amounts of biscuits a week plus greasy croissants etc for breakfast. Yet he's always been a perfect weight. He carries no visible extra fat, has visible muscle tone despite never working out and is in perfect health (he has a regular check up and fitness test due to his main job).
He has 5 jobs, covers the childcare while I work away, does his share of the household stuff and childcare for a 2 and a 4 year old plus is renovating our house on his own. Oh and he's never had Covid, despite being in close proximity to infected people on multiple occasions.

Not sure why I got to 16 stone on a much healthier diet though. Of course I was just a thick fatty who must never have thought of trying to cut calories or exercise more 🙄. I've lost 5 and a half stone by using Mounjaro despite eating a very similar diet to what I was eating before. I had no weight related health complications at bmi 40 but didn't want this to suddenly change and it affect my very young children.

Personally I think it's all genetic, just as it's likely just genetics that in over 200yrs my family has had just one cancer related death (smoking related). My DP's mum is just like DP health wise and is still working full time well into her 70s. She never gains an ounce of weight no matter what she eats.

£££££££££$$$$$$$$$

Exactly. You don’t know! You are assuming so much about people based on one thing - that they are obese. That’s it’s. You are assuming they don’t know. That they can’t have possible ever been helafgy. Can’t possibly have tried these magic tricks that you have tried. That they must not have tried everything and jumped on a band wagon. Rather than them choosing to do something to improve their own lives and health.

Actually, I have never met an obese person who is clueless about how to eat healthy. Or clueless as to how they have got to the size they have.

You mean large parts of the population don’t believe what you do. Because there is no definitive about fasting. Or about how we used to eat.

As I said recent studies suggest fasting isn’t good for women. But here you insisting it’s the key to your good health. Despite you having lots of the privileges that enable people to have good health.

I know a woman who was convinced long fasts were the key to an easy menopause. And put herself in hospital twice.

Actually, I have never met an obese person who is clueless about how to eat healthy. Or clueless as to how they have got to the size they have.

I have.

The NHS still uses the “eat well plate” FFS. So what most people think is “healthy” isn’t bloody healthy. See also slimming clubs etc. Muller light yogurt = have as much as you want, avocado = sinful.

GPs do less than half a day’s training on nutrition in 7 years of training.

I've lost 5 and a half stone by using Mounjaro despite eating a very similar diet to what I was eating before. I had no weight related health complications at bmi 40 but didn't want this to suddenly change and it affect my very young children.

You’re measuring health by weight. Skinny people drop dead from heart attacks and cancer. If you carry on eating shit the likelyhood of you having health related issues later in life or suffering an early death are exponentially higher, whatever your weight. Don’t see many 100 year olds putting their longevity down to takeaways and croissants.

What’s your point?

I haven’t. 2 women at work know what healthy eating is and do a slimming club because it works. They still knows what’s healthy.

And lots of skinny people also think low fat, low sugar is healthy.

Again, what you mean is people don’t believe what YOU believe. Even though you can’t back it up.

And you still never answered the question. Do you think people with anorexia should just be able to get grip and eat healthy?

I'd be insulted frankly. And no couldn't care less what other people thought about me paying for a drug with so many health benefits - as you say she's been very careful about money so good on her. I might judge you though for paying for it.
If you were my sister I might accept, but money always always comes with ties. Are you really saying you will pay a couple thousand to her a year for life? What if she goes on a holiday? Are you going to think why are you paying if she can do that?

Actually you're wrong there as well. My great aunt just died at 92. Her diet was shockingly bad - far worse than mine. She died of 'old age'. No signs of any health issues at all - no signs of mental failings either.
She had a fall and the shite care from the nhs meant she couldn't walk for the last 3 years of her life. She spent those 3 years eating trifle and cake in bed. She put on no weight and caused no health problems.

@ItTook9Years noting you had nothing to say about any other point in my long post except to tell me I eat shite (despite not asking what I eat - you just assumed I eat shite).

3 years out of 92 wouldn’t have a significant impact on her health, would it? She lived the majority of her life before convenience foods.

Had she ate 2 whole family trifles a day and a slab of fruit cake there is no way she wouldn’t have gained weight with no energy being expended through movement. But I assume she wasn’t.

Go ahead. Let’s hear how apples made you fat.

No you don't, not on all sites - I didn't. Just stated the weight (claimed a stone more than it was), no proof required. And clicked on the "no" box when they asked if I wanted my GP to be informed. (I'm not actually registered with a GP at present). There's a lot of sites and they all have different rules.

That’s terrifying.

You are so rude and condescending.

You admitted above you have no idea what people have tried before they turned to Injections.
Your way of eating isn’t actually healthy according to a lot of studies. Especially for women or those with disordered eating.

Its also really popular with those who are suffering with orthorexia. Sound familiar?

You starve yourself for almost 4 days in a. Regular basis and then come out with comments like this.

You have again and again posted hugely misleading information on this thread and encouraged people to do things that are dangerous. Because you believe people tens of thousands of years ago might have done it.

Why not just admit it? Why not admit you have contempt for people who are over weight? And will outright lie to try and prove a point that doesn’t exist.

Still not answered anyone who has actually asked you a question. Like do you believe people with anorexia should just start eating?

or is that different because those people aren’t fat so you wouldn’t have more compassion for those people?

This very post. See click bait title which doesn't even relate to the content of the post. And the three other posts on this product on MN alone withing the last 24 hours - 2 of which offer discount codes.

I believe MN is complicit, because it is allowing those posts with discount codes. They probably think, what's the harm, weight loss, all good here and every company needs to fund itself - I can sympathise. I enjoy the freedom of speech and interesting debate on this website, so we all use it and apply critical thinking - but for certain health related products there should be a higher duty of care. This whole website is funded through advertising. Sure on the fashion threads all the time you see 'should I buy this' with links. Some of those posters are genuine. A good proportion almost certainly aren't. Social media influencers are a cheap and very effective way to advertise.

I find the whole 'hype' around certain drugs really interesting. The discussions around managing weight or HRT almost always become very divisive, because people are struggling and they really need/want a solution - everything has a place, so I am not saying these medications don't have a place - but I am saying that care needs to be taken because those who really want this medication are vulnerable to be taken advantage of and may ignore a proper risk assessment. You only have to look at the recent revelations around the whole Dr Louise Newson /HRT debacle.

Still not answered anyone who has actually asked you a question. Like do you believe people with anorexia should just start eating?

of course not. the root of lots of eating disorders (including over eating) is mental. There should be more support for that and less “here’s an easy way through meds”.

or is that different because those people aren’t fat so you wouldn’t have more compassion for those people?

you have absolutely no idea whether I’m fat or not.

you have no idea what I’ve seen these quick fixes do to friends and family. I’m beyond angry at what the food and pharmacy industries get away with. Profits above all else while the NHS crumbles trying to sort out the effects.

And damn social media and their algorithms exploiting the vulnerable.

No.It is really overstepping and will change rhe dynamic of the friendship.
As you presumably lied to be prescribed MJ, I am sure your friend can just do the same.The suppliers offering big discounts are still not selling at a loss, so as more and more suppliers enter the market place the costs will be driven down