So if your friend lost 5 stone in 6 months .. would you wonder how ?

[AboutVattime]

Just inquisitive.. my best friend has always been obese. About 22 stone. I have worried about her health silently for a very long time.. she started Mountjaro in April and is now 14 st. I am completely thrilled for her . Her blood pressure is now 'upper' but not ' see your healthcare provider' .. her heart 'murmurs' have ceased.. I am worried that when she come to the end of her treatment she's will just gain it all again. It is without a miraculous drug.. she has struggled to afford...she is incredibly good with money and financially planned every inch of her journey so that her treatment equalled less than her cost of food consumption.. but only in the short term ( she planned 8 months but goal in 6)

My AIBU is ..I see the amazing difference , she is so happy for the first time in a long time after years of weight watchers, slimming world, Cambridge diet.. low carb, NHS gastric band..(15 years ago which helped but only ever got her to 16 stone before piling it back on) .. she has found one of the Mountjaro providers who will prescribe a maintenance dose...

But she can't afford it long term. It will be £189 per month without a discount.. AIBU to say I can pay this for her. She is my very best friend . I love her new found sense of self confidence.. and don't want it to go.. the money is not an issue for me . I am extremely comfortable and struggle to spend. However would love to help someone I love very much.

Just for complete transparency I had crept over into 'unhealthy' zone as also had osteoporosis in knees. Also took Mountjaro for 2 months and know how incredible it is. I have kept it off for 5 months without a maintenance dose .. it just reinforced healthy eating recipes for me . . But I haven't been morbidly obese

I think that’s a fair point .

However on the vast majority of threads side effects are talked about. And MN do move all ‘codes’ posts. Lots of posters on these drugs are more willing to post about side effects.

and when you order the injections all the side effects come with it. If people choose not to read it. Not much can be done. That even happens with medication from a gp.

I do also think MN have let a lot of posters who clearly have eating disorders post all over the website for years and do think they should do better. But I don’t think it’s new since these drugs came out. The competitive under eating threads have always been a common occurrence.

I am more than happy for this drug to move to GPs prescription. I do agree the whole ‘get people to use your code so you get it cheaper’ is unethical. I haven’t claimed there’s no issues with the system.

Yes people are vulnerable. But they are also vulnerable to laxatives being available over the counter. Or slim fast being widely available.

But I do also think that the priority at the moment should be focused on people selling knock odd versions in beauty salons etc. If we are going to prioritise tackling issues, that should be the first one.

So you don’t tell people with anorexia to just eat more.

But have repeatedly kept telling people that they should just do what you do? And it would solve the problem.

So why are you saying that to obese people?

If you are fat why are you telling people if they just ate like you do they wouldn’t be fat? Is that another misleading statement you are making? Again.

You admitted you have no idea what any individual obese person has done before making the decision to use the jabs.

You are advocating for dangerous ways of eating insisting you have the answer. Yet can’t back any of it up.

Do you know what being obese does to people?

And we said before, you took the Covid jab multiple times because you felt the benefits outweighed the risks. But are rude and condescending to people doing the same.

Do you know what damage the Covid vaccine did to people I know? But I still understand why people took it and think it’s their choice. I have had it, multiple times. Because I looked at the benefits vs the risk and made a valid choice for myself.

and the injections are not a quick fix. Clearly something you know nothing about. Again.

5 stone in 6 months for people that have apparently been struggling for years to lose weight “healthily” seems like a quick fix to me. Especially when it can’t be maintained without the injections. Pharma companies love finding things with a lifetime need.

I’m not saying everyone should do what I do but you have people on this thread saying 601 cals a day will cause weight gain.

I’m saying there should be better support for people whose weight carries a risk of serious health implications. The NHS isn’t doing it, slimming clubs aren’t doing it. I destroyed my metabolism following Michael Moseley’s Fast 800. I gave up dieting after that (once I’d worked hard to restore my metabolism) and instead focused on learning more about the food we eat. That’s what I think people should be supported to do. For me fasting is hugely positive. It won’t be for everyone.

There is absolutely loads of emerging evidence that a diet consisting of significant amounts of UPF is harmful to health. Getting people off that and into real food would be so much better for individuals and society more widely.

@Gladicalled I guess I'm not just talking about the side effected, but also the risks. Maybe that's one and the same. And definitely the risks of knock off versions are insane, I agree. But only a few posters call out the risks. What if we didn't post? Anyone who posts and naively suggests an alternative is shot down in flames because it is such a personal and emotive subject. I'll probably not bother after this thread. Until one of my kids perhaps decides they're struggling a bit to maintain a certain body and gets hold of this miracle thing from somewhere... I know at that age I'd have been very tempted and I know if I'd managed to get my hands on it at that age I very much doubt I would be here now.

So to me, this type of advertising, it is low. It is immoral. There is already plenty of money to be made where the risk is justified and carefully monitored, so the push to encourage anyone and everyone is pure greed and incredibly irresponsible. We will see where the next few years bring us.

But you said you lost 3 stone in 3 months by being mindful of what you eat. That’s still a stone a month. Because of a calorie deficit. People on the jab still have to eat in a calorie deficit. Why can’t they lose at the same rate you did?

Did people ask for your advice? You assume people who take this medication can’t possibly have done any research and weigh up the risks/benefits based on what they already know about themselves.

Do you also go round offering unsolicited advice for things like cosmetic surgery, vaping, other new medications for health conditions? Or are you only interested in lazy fat people?

Honestly! I'm not sure what Ittook9years is on about. She seems hellbent on being superior to thou regardless of how she gets there. The goalpost keeps moving.

She's also refused to acknowledge that her not getting Covid which she says must be because her (wonderful) diet must have made her immune, should then follow that the diet of the obese people who didn't get Covid either, including those who didn't even get the shots (where she admittedly got some) must have made them immune too.

I don't think she wants to believe some obese people's "inferior" diet and lifestyle could be the same or give the same benefit as her superior diet - or worse be better than hers. I doubted ever give up this argument of hers for that reason.

Was trying to quote this post. Not sure why it didn't.

Or maybe this poster takes personal responsibility for her health and well being and prizes that instead of eating cake, doughnuts, chips and other crap food whilst sitting on the couch?

Imagine her own 3 stone in 3 months and her example of the obese person's 5 stone in 6 months, yet it's the latter that she has a problem with. @island2513

Ah here you are with your ‘concern’ for obese people. Not passing judgement at all, eh? 🙄

The first thing we agree on!

I’m trying to decide why people are so aggressively against it, and I don’t buy that it’s genuine concern because of all the judgemental comments that come with it.

The utter contempt for people who are obese is clear to see.

Why not tell a white lie and say you had a small lottery or premium bond win and you wanted to share some of your good fortune?

Maybe you shoud take responsibility for educating yourself about the causes of obesity, food addiction, etc before you make ridiculous sweeping statements that clearly infer you think all obese people spend their lives sedentary and stuffing their faces with UPFs.

Do you think that if you trained like Usain Bolt you could run as fast as Usain Bolt? Or do you - on some TEENY level - recognise that all bodies are different and therefore if one person does the exact same thing as another, they won't have the exact same outcome?

Well done you. Now apply that same understanding to weight gain and loss, and stop being so judgy.

Do share on the forum how people become fat otherwise?

No one objected to the risks being mentioned. But they did counter it. Especially where people were discussing risks and actually incorrect or misleading. Not saying that was you but there’s has been lots of misleading information about the risks on here.

One poster kept mentioning my 600 cals and I agree it’s unhealthy. But as I said, there’s always been regular threads that are competitive under eating for years on MN and no one ever calls that out. Another poster is bragging about how they regularly starve themselves for 84 hours. And how that’s the key to good health. The same poster who has misrepresented ‘facts’ over and over again. This is someone who objects to injections spreading misinformation and trying to convince people that disordered eating is healthy.

What do you mean if you didn’t post? Do you believe anyone gets to point of taking these medications without knowing the risks? Or only learn the risks because a person on MN mentioned there was risks.

Young people are susceptible to having eating disorders. That’s not new or not created by these drugs. Whilst I agree with some of what you say, I don’t quite get why so many people are all of a sudden hugely concerned about the injections and the impact on vulnerable people. When diet culture, celebrity culture, the media, the internet is a far bigger risk. And the knock offs are a far bigger risk to vulnerable people.

All of a sudden, there’s something to help obese people and everyone is so concerned for them. And concerned about people not taking it. But don’t have the same concern for over the counter laxatives as an example and all the other things that are cheaper and more easily available.

The poster that starves themselves for days on a regular basis?

It’s always the same with these threads: “Quick, a fat person! Let’s put them in their place and tell them they’re a lazy sod with no willpower who puts no effort in.”

I lost 4 stone back in 2021-2022. I started at 295lbs. I was exercising multiple hours a week, counting calories - you name it. My loss was agonisingly slow. Maintaining some weeks, putting on even though I was absolutely burning off far more than I was putting in. I mentally beat myself up, couldn’t enjoy the weight loss I had managed because I felt I wasn’t doing enough, wasn’t good enough. Summer 2022 someone told me I looked like I’d put on weight. Now, I knew I had maintained as I had weighed that morning. But those words completely shattered me. Every negative feeling just piled on top of me. Couple that with another off hand comment about something else and I just gave up. I had about 50 pounds left to my goal, but I couldn’t get back into it. Slowly slowly I put the weight back on and at the end of August this year I weighed 301lbs. I have a lot of different reasons I put the weight back on, but even when I was eating within my calories at my peak of my journey, I’d look at them and go “well I can still have this chocolate bar or that cake”. And yes, I could, but I didn’t need to have it. But it felt like I did.

I felt so low at the end of August. I saw no way back out of this weight gain. I’d tried to get restarted again and again. Had an unhealthy Pepsi max addiction. Kept seeing so much about Mounjaro and took the plunge. 6 weeks in and I’ve lost 18.3lbs, and that’s not with regular exercise yet apart from the steps. It took me almost 18 weeks to lose that last time with everything I was doing. My Pepsi max addiction has gone and I’ve had none since I started. So no, I’m not cheating. I’m not lazy. I don’t have no willpower. I’m eating up 1800 calories a day, sometimes 1400-1500, and keeping hydrated. I don’t want chocolate any more. My mind is clear. Mentally I do feel a little better. Mounjaro has already helped me significantly and I hope as I begin regular exercise it continues to do so. Stop being judgemental and nasty about people who have resorted to using this drug.

OP, massive well done to you and your friend. You sound like a lovely person and it’s very kind of you to even consider the offer.

Edited to say: I have a very full on and stressful job, I regularly work 60 hours a week at times. I have children and animals to also look after. I don’t just sit on the couch and stuff my face, thanks very much.

Don’t be obtuse. Your comments are designed to shame people and not be helpful. Just because someone is overeating calories does not mean they are only ever eating crap food whilst sat on the sofa and never exercising.

There’s a tone of moral superiority from posters who are able to maintain/achieve a healthy weight relatively easily, as if they have some greater ability for self-discipline and will power than ‘fat, lazy, greedy’ people. But there is plenty of research out there that shows it is not a level playing field. GLP-1 medications help level that playing field. And funnily enough, we are seeing many people go on to be able to achieve what the naturally slim people do.

https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/slim-people-have-a-genetic-advantage-when-it-comes-to-maintaining-their-weight

www.alumni.cam.ac.uk/magazine/issue-100/this-idea-must-die-“obesity-is-caused-by-lack-of-willpower”#:~:text=Professor%20Sadaf%20Farooqi%20says%20being,a%20demonstration%20of%20moral%20superiority.&text=The%20myth%20that%20obesity%20is,but%20it%20is%20incredibly%20pervasive.

Bully for you.

Not everyone can do that.
If they could, half the population wouldn't be obese.

@Island2513 are you sure when you quoted my post, you were quoting the right post?

Have you actually read any of my posts?

I would never, ever think (never mind use) the terminology you have just attributed to me.

I struggle with my weight, both up and down. I know how intractable eating disorders are. I appreciate people have different metabolisms and a whole range of things going on with their health and their life. I have clearly stated there is a place for these medications. My issue with it is how it is advertised, sold, monitored etc.

The Advertising Standards Authority exists for a reason. Social Media allows it to be bypassed. This is my point.

I was responding to this part of your post, which suggests you like offering unsolicited advice on the risks? To the point you want to give up posting because you get shot down. I agree with your points about the knock off stuff but your post suggests it’s about MJ overall, not just the knock off stuff.

I guess I'm not just talking about the side effected, but also the risks. Maybe that's one and the same. And definitely the risks of knock off versions are insane, I agree. But only a few posters call out the risks. What if we didn't post? Anyone who posts and naively suggests an alternative is shot down in flames because it is such a personal and emotive subject. I'll probably not bother after this thread.