To be appalled that this isn’t murder?

[Bex5490]

Possible the worst headline I’ve read since the woman in France whose husband drugged her and had her raped by strangers…

But what I don’t understand is why it is manslaughter not murder. A violent act is considered murder if the perpetrator intended to do GBH but the person dies in the process.

Is violently raping a woman not intending to do enough harm?

The world is broken. There are rightly or wrongly teenagers on murder charges under joint enterprise laws for being there when spmeone they know has killed someone. If they go somewhere with the intention of beating someone up, even if it isn’t them that turns it into a murder, they can be prosecuted for it. Yet raping a woman isn’t seen as intending to do enough damage?

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/37-year-old-mum-raped-33808196

I'm not sure I understand

Are you asking why rape is not murder? Can you explain

Sorry I didn’t attach the link. I’ve edited to include it now.

You have to prove intention and premeditation to kill for murder. Therefore it's manslaughter.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg21ygky6go

I think this is the case that @Bex5490 is referring to.

I'll be honest, I am not entirely sure how rape can lead to death, especially if the victim is unconscious at the time, but I am probably showing a level of ignorance.

I read that it was oral rape that killed her. Feel sick even writing that.

Thats why its not murder, as there was no clear intent to kill her

Probably suffocation as yes, it's being reported as oral rape 😡

I believe it was oral rape, he may have obstructed her breathing and caused her to suffocate.

I doubt it was premeditated and he intended to kill her.

Maybe it’s ignorant of me to think it should be murder and shows my lack of knowledge of legal terms. I just think that this has to be amongst the worst crimes. Manslaughter to me implies something accidental.

I wondered that but I also read that she was orally raped, so my thoughts were surely that’s choking her and that’s what she died from?

It does seem strange there’s no cause of death stated yet he’s being charged with manslaughter, poor poor lady x

It was oral rape.

She couldn't breathe.

Rip.

If you choked someone with your hands would that be murder?

It's disgusting.

Some men are honestly like animals.

Thank you all for clarifying. I didn't read that.

It wasn’t the case here as others have already said but women have been penetrated with broken bottles or been raped so violently and repeatedly (anally or vaginally) that they have suffered severe internal organ damage/bleeding leading to death. Rape doesn’t just mean “normal” sex. It can be incredibly physically damaging.

I was gonna say it’s possible he banged her head or something, but causing her death by oral sex is horrific! I mean it’s all horrific, but that way of death didn’t even cross my mind.

God, I hate some men! Are we just fair game to them when we’re vulnerable, do they not see us as human?

The main difference between murder and manslaughter is that a person must intend to kill or cause GBH in order to be guilty of murder. You need the intent + the act.

There was a thread the other day about whether the world would be better if all politicians were women and while I’m sure it would be equally bad, I’m sure the processes for rape trials and sentencing for sex offenders would improve.

I would think that intent would be there....intentional strangulation

Murder is the deliberate killing of someone. It's truly awful, he deserves to die a slow painful death, but I think manslaughter is probably the correct charge in this case

But my question is what constitutes GBH? How is the damage from violently raping someone seen as less than the damage caused by hitting someone with a baseball bat for example.

If you intended to cause GBH, then yes. If you didn't, no. But there is no defence for strangulation due to consent now, since 2021. So nobody can claim 'rough sex but she asked for it.'

You don't have to intend to kill someone for it to be murder - you have to intend to do the act that it was reasonably foreseeable would result in death. If someone is ramming a large hard object repeatedly down someone's throat I would argue it's reasonably foreseeable that might result in death.

Sadly they cannot prove his actions killed her, it could have been the alcohol/cold another reason.
The man needs a life sentence in any case.