We will dance again

[namechange11112222]

I have just watched this documentary and it broke my heart.
Hamas are revolting monsters, I can't call them animals because animals wouldn't even do that.

I do wonder how the younger, very outspoken generation would:

1. Feel if that was a festival they went to and watched their friends get slaughtered
2. Have said if there were social media at the time of WW2

Would we have been viewed in the same way Israel has been? The causalities of war were far greater.

I do not support the way in which Benjamin Netanyahu is going about this war at all but I 100% agree with Israel's right to defend itself.

They seem to be the only war I can think of where a country being attacked from all sides, from countries who do want mass extermination of Jewish people (do the younger generation still get taught about the holocaust anymore) who are repeatedly being told to stand down by the west.

To remind the younger generation of previous war casualties (for anyone with the argument that this war is completely out of proportion):

WW1

• UK - 885,000 deaths
• Germany - over 2 million deaths

WW2 - is this proportionate?

• 1.5 - 3 million deaths in Germany
• 210,000 dead - Nuclear bombs into Japan

• 70,000 innocent dead - England

Iraq War

• 179 English soldiers
• 4,492 US soldiers
• 186 - 210,000 Iraqi civilians

No civilian should ever be harmed in war, it is evil however it is inevitable.
How many Jewish people should be killed for Israel to be supported in defending themselves.
So the "the death toll is completely out of proportion" argument doesn't stand.

Yes, we can go back to the time before the bible and argue who has the right to the land. But this current war was started by Hamas and Hezbollah the following day.

However, please don't try to say they want mass extermination of Jewish people just because of the land.
People spitting on a naked woman's dead body when brought back into Gaza, footage filmed by Hamas.

Lets call this what it is pure racism, just like the Nazi's, who killed 6 million Jewish people.

Bump

The Nova massacre was awful and so is the slaughter of over 40,000 people including thousands of innocent children.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make but if you're saying that Israel has free reign to attack the ME then I don't agree with you.

I completely appreciate different views on this, and I do agree with you, Israel have no right to have free rein to attack the ME.
However, hamas attacks them, Hezbollah has been firing rockets into them since the 8th of October, and Iran have also sent almost 200 ballistic missiles into Israel. My point I guess is that this is the only war I have ever studied where by the country who is being attacked from many sides is being told they have to stand down.

Unfortunately, if they do back down Hamas will see that as a surrender. Hamas have already vowed to repeat October 7th “there will be a second, a third, a fourth” calling for the annihilation of Israel.

It is absolutely horrific to see so many innocent civilians die, it should never be something that should happen, it would be amazing if there were never another war and everyone was at peace.

From what I understand from what I have read (I am happy to be proved wrong if someone wants to send me something to the contrary), Israel have been sending warnings to the people of Gaza where they will be striking to give people a chance to move to an area of safety (although I know there are not many places which would be safe over there now 😔).
They are trying to target Hamas, but Hamas are using their people as human shields which is horrific, buy having tunnels under schools or residential buildings or worse still under hospitals.

I wish there could be peace over there, but I can only see that happening if the terrorists who want mass extermination are destroyed. 😔

I do wonder how the younger, very outspoken generation would:

1. Feel if that was a festival they went to and watched their friends get slaughtered

I guess the Manchester arena bombing is no longer in your conscious thoughts. Nice.

Remind me again how many innocent Palestinians have been slaughtered?

We had a terrorist attack in Manchester at a pop concert , little girls were killed. It does happen to us too. It was awful what Hamas did but I think restraint rather than genocide would have been the better option.

It's not happening as you've been given to believe. Gaza has been bombed indiscriminately, people are on the verge of starvation, tens of thousands of children are dead. People trying to get to aid trucks have been shot, hospital and refugee camps have been bombed.

Thousands of Palestinians have been detained with no charge in Israel, prisoners have been raped and Palestinians have been used as shields. Language has been used throughout the invasion calling for Palestine to be razed to the ground and for ethnic cleansing.

Now Israel are illegally invading other countries and Iran have retaliated. If their end game is peace then they're deluded.

Statistically the death rate in Gaza is the highest in the 21st century and I'm sure these figures will keep rising.

www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/daily-death-rate-gaza-higher-any-other-major-21st-century-conflict-oxfam

You're absolutely right. Hamas is hiding among the Palestinian civilians.

The IRA hid among the Irish civilians, too. Maybe we should have dealt with The Troubles by the wholesale bombing of Dublin because who cares how many civilians you kill as long as you get a terrorist or two, right? Plus if we'd told everyone who lived in Dublin to evacuate to Bray then that would have made it ok.

I hate these threads as, apart from OP, they remind me what a cesspit of antisemitism Mumsnet is.

I’m off to watch some Douglas Murray to calm down :)

Sure. Because if the English government had carpet-bombed Dublin to kill a few IRA members then anyone who suggested it was in any way a disproportionate response would only be doing so because of their deep-seated hatred of British people.

The immediate threat of Iran and its terrorist proxies may be to Israel but the ultimate threat is to the entire world.

Are you joking ? Douglas Murray the right winger doom monger.

Gaza has been absolutely fucking decimated, and now Israel are bombing another two? Three? Countries. Poor, poor Israel. 🙄

10,000,000 killed in the Congo genocide by King Leopold. It’s hardly ever mentioned when atrocities are recalled.

Maybe we should have dealt with The Troubles by the wholesale bombing of Dublin because who cares how many civilians you kill as long as you get a terrorist or two, right?

Well the British army did kill civilians & Im not sure why you would bomb Dublin to deal with the Troubles?

Israeli intelligence has managed to infiltrate the multiple manufacturers of communications equipment of their enemies and simultaneously detonate hundreds of them (no care as to where they were at the time by the way and something that would have required ridiculous amounts of advance planning). They have known the exact locations of multiple enemy leaders and commanders at the precise moment they needed to...... Yet they completely and utterly failed to have any knowledge or warning of a massive attack on their own population that gave them a blank cheque to do what they have wanted to for years.

I don't normally do conspiracy theories, but but the complete lack of intelligence followed by the absurd precision of it seems anomalous to my tiny and uninformed mind!

When will war mongering heavily armed states like Israel, Britain and the US realise that terrorism is the inevitable outcome of their behavior. It's all the smaller country has and as we all know , its extremely effective because it's very difficult to counter no matter how large the army. Every bully boy act, every expansion, creates ever more terrorists.

Then bombed them in shelters in bray, and hospitals and queues for aid etc

Sorry OP but I’m not going to agree with all you say.

I don’t condone the murder of anyone, but it’s not Isreal that are defending themselves. The attack from hamas last year was 75 years in the making of Palestinians defending themselves. For 75 years they’ve been being unlawfully detained, murdered and displaced.

In the same way I don’t condone what the IRA did, but from years upon years of unlawful killings, inprisonment and colonisation of Ireland from Britain, you have to start looking at what has pushed these groups into their actions.

The attack from hamas does not justify ‘Isreal defending themselves’ by attacking multiple countries now, beheading babies with missiles and causing starvation of civilians.

Educate yourself properly because your view point is DEEPLY flawed and disturbing.

It’s not really that deep. They were complacent & too confident, it’s human nature.
The Bush administration also ignored warnings before 9/11

What a lovely world we’re living in where in 2024, being anti genocide equates to antisemitism.

In the same way I don’t condone what the IRA did, but from years upon years of unlawful killings, inprisonment and colonisation of Ireland from Britain, you have to start looking at what has pushed these groups into their actions.

So does that mean we should expect more Manchester Arena style bombings? Because the War on Terror led to millions of deaths & Im not really comfortable with the idea of getting murdered because of it.

Also why do people only ever reference the IRA when talking about the Troubles?? Loyalist groups killed more civilians!

I saw it. It was so sad. That festival looked great fun, until Hamas arrived.

The idea that Israel can somehow bomb itself to peace is so wrong. I can't help thinking this was all part of Hamas plan, and Israel has walked right into it. Thousands of children dead under Israeli bombs, even if those children were Hamas shields, are never going to win heart and minds in support of Israel.