To think incompetent hypocrite Starmer has lost the respect of the people and his own party in record time?

[TealTraybake]

An excoriating letter from Rosie Duffield who resigned today..

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/rosie-duffield-resignation-letter-starmer-labour-b2620603.html#comments-area

Been bad enough for her to resign, I wonder what will happen next. Does she know something we don’t?

Labour focused heavily on sleaze and corruption when they were in opposition. It clearly did not cross their minds that their instructions to the government, would apply equally to them when they were in government.

For a Tory to be innocent of sleaze and corruption, he/she must not practise sleaze and corruption. For a Labour politician to be innocent of sleaze and corruption, it doesn’t matter whether they practise sleaze and corruption. All that’s needed is to be “not Tory”.

Hypocrites the lot of them.

It's only a side issue but does Lord Alli really need a special pass for Parliament? Can't he use his HoL one?

I'm a Tory but I think the freebies are only immoral if some special benefit is given in return as in if it leads to cronyism or Lord Alli gets something in return.

Regardless of legalities or moralities, it's just totally undignified to have someone pay out for your clothes in any other situation than being on the absolute bones of your ass. I'd be mortified that the whole world knew I was kitted out by a benevolent do gooder.

Then why do you think most firms and all state employers forbid them? It is because they create a personal obligation and give the appearance of corruption. Are you going to refuse to listen to the opinion of a 'friend' who has given you valuable presents? There may not be a contractual quid pro quo but there exists a moral obligation.

Fair point.

I mind the hypocracy of accepting expensive and frivolous gifts while saying that we are all going to have to suffer together. You cannot tell me that KS and his wife cannot afford to buy their own clothes and glasses.

I'd feel pimped if a man tried that on me, wondering what he really wanted. But my mother taught me to be cynical.
Husband said I was the first girl friend who ever bought a round for his friends.

I think it was actually a pass for Number 10 which means that he can enter as and when he pleases and not only when invited as a visitor....yup that's right. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c86l7xqzze8o

Ok, that makes sense!

We are the 8th largest manufacturing country in the world... As well as being number 4 in biotech..then there's financial services..and so on and so on,,,

But lets not let facts get in the way of political dogma ;)

https://fourjaw.com/blog/the-uk-becomes-the-8th-largest-manufacturing-nation-in-the-world#:~:text=The%20latest%20report%20confirms%20that,key%20player%20in%20global%20manufacturing.

This. 💯
But actually the morality of it is very important too.

This ^

It is so undignified. It's like he's a dolly to be dressed up or it's some kind of Pretty Woman situation 🤢 so sordid.

If it wasn't so tragic, it'd be funny...

Ah that did make me laugh

But yes tragic too

The benefits system is one part of the welfare state. The welfare state includes many other things such as the NHS, state education, etc.

Manufacturing actually grew in real terms under Thatcher. The services sector exploded, so manufacturing shrank as an overall percentage of the UK's economy, but it was still larger in real terms than when she came to power.

I think some people just believe the folk tales about how she ruined the country rather than the reality of fixing a ruined nation that had been through the hell of double digit inflation, rolling power cuts, a three day week and an IMF bailout.

Some people were actually there and saw the damage she did on a daily basis. It doesn’t look any better in hindsight.

I wonder how history will remember starmer and raynor,. Can they turn it round, or are they on the green mile. Dead men walking. And Labour is going to take them out.

It depends whether their policies stifle growth

If they do they’ll be up against it from all angles

The welfare state includes the benefits system - every round of benefit changes for the last 20 years has been referred to as welfare reform.

Yes, some of us were there. Quite a lot of us! And we saw how so much better things were as a result, and the opportunities that were created.

There is a tendency for those on the left, almost always with a primarily public sector background, to think they are always right. Regardless of the facts. But they are often not bright enough to accept they don’t know it all, and so when challenged with facts that don’t agree with their version of the truth they are unable to actually debate. But instead resort to tired old tropes. Thatcher bad. Blair good. Actually both were good leaders, who could inspire people and effect change. Brown, May and, it appears, Starmer cannot inspire people. And all were/are probably ‘techocratic’ leaders, which actually means micro managers. So, not only can they not lead, no one wants to work with them either. Which brings us back to the thread. He’s lost the respect of much of the public and party.

Yes it has and it makes me furious. There’s been a deliberate move to rebrand benefits, or social security as “welfare”. This ensures the system has negative connotations associated with the US system of time limited “handouts” rather than a system set up to benefit us all. It’s so cynical.

I'm actually getting a bit worried that he might end up resigning and then we'll be stuck with some far left nutjob.

The Equality Act absolutely doesn’t assert that everyone is eligible for every job. Only that protected characteristics should not be factored in to the decision to employ someone or not, unless they are directly relevant and proportionate, and not applied in a way that is illegal. 15 years of supporting sick and disabled people into work and dealing day in and day out with ridiculous and unfounded prejudice. Only on MN would that get me labelled as an ‘anti-woke reactionary’.