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To think incompetent hypocrite Starmer has lost the respect of the people and his own party in record time?

1000 replies

TealTraybake · 28/09/2024 18:52

An excoriating letter from Rosie Duffield who resigned today..

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/rosie-duffield-resignation-letter-starmer-labour-b2620603.html#comments-area

Been bad enough for her to resign, I wonder what will happen next. Does she know something we don’t?

Rosie Duffield’s resignation letter in full

Rosie Duffield has quit as a Labour MP, attacking Sir Keir Starmer’s “cruel and unnecessary policies” and the freebie row engulfing the party.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/rosie-duffield-resignation-letter-starmer-labour-b2620603.html#comments-area

OP posts:
Thread gallery
22
ByMerryKoala · 29/09/2024 09:53

Greenkindness · 29/09/2024 09:49

The Tories handed out million pound contracts to their families, friends or donors. During Covid this happened often for no discernible return, for PPE etc. Hundreds of millions wasted on the Rwanda scheme. Rishi and his private helicopters. Boris and his decor. Zahawi and his stables. Partying in No. 10. Raab couldn’t leave his sun longer. This is just off the top of my head. Badly handled Brexit costing millions, and that’s on/going.

There’s sewage in our waterways. There’s families who’ve been living in mouldy houses. So much wrong with the country.

Whatever your view of Starmer, the Tories were awful.

So, this is all good enough for you, is it? Is this the Labour party you voted for?

Rosscameasdoody · 29/09/2024 09:53

Didimum · 29/09/2024 09:46

That’s an issue with your local council – not central government.

Not really. If disability benefits for pensioners included a mobility component (which attendance allowance doesn’t because it considers mobility issues after age 66 to be age related and not down to disability) then pensioners would have the same opportunity to qualify automatically for a blue badge as recipients of PIP and ADP. It’s long been thought that AA should offer a mobility component for those who had mobility issues before age 66. That policy is set at government level.

Dorisbonson · 29/09/2024 09:53

Brahumbug · 29/09/2024 08:08

It is alleged he broke towards rules, but neither had been upheld yet. Remember the Tories prorogued parliament for their own purposes, the ultimate in self serving corruption.

I understood they held an election after that and won it pretty convincingly so that indicates the electorate disagreed with you. Interestingly Corbyn won more votes in 2019 than Starmer in 2024.

Either way as far as I'm concerned they are all a bunch of corrupt charlatans. The tories are about to elect another loser as their leader and probably someone was part of the last bunch of incompetent crooks and offer that as choice to Starmer. Where is the choice? I don't want to vote for any of these people.

Julen7 · 29/09/2024 09:54

Rosscameasdoody · 29/09/2024 09:49

You’d think differently if it meant the difference between heating and eating. Don’t worry, l suspect that come October you’ll have plenty to get worked up about as the hits get closer to home.

This. There’ll be something for everybody in the budget.

ByMerryKoala · 29/09/2024 09:54

DancingPhantomsOnTheTerrace · 29/09/2024 09:52

Labour were under the impression that 4000 pensioners would die had the Tories implemented this policy in 2017

To be accurate, that estimate was from removing the WFA altogether. I assume labour would argue that those 4,000 deaths would come from the very poorest, and that as those people are still going to receive it, the estimate isn't applicable.

No, they predicted it would be the outcome of means testing WFA

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/05/tory-winter-fuel-allowance-cuts-puts-4000-lives-at-risk-claims-labour

Tory winter fuel allowance cut puts 4,000 lives at risk, claims Labour

Shadow chancellor John McDonnell says taking £300 annual payment away from millions of pensioners would contribute to rise in winter deaths

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/05/tory-winter-fuel-allowance-cuts-puts-4000-lives-at-risk-claims-labour

Oganesson118 · 29/09/2024 09:54

Well they've brought in the VAT on private school fees, which seems to be what most people who voted Labour voted on the basis of, so he's fine, can cling onto power for 5 years on that basis alone.

Didimum · 29/09/2024 09:55

Rosscameasdoody · 29/09/2024 08:23

The WFA needed to be means tested out of the hands of wealthy pensioners. £218.15 a week as a single pensioner is the threshold for pension credit. In what world is that wealthy ?

Rachel Reeves’ ministerial salary is circa £150,000 pa. She, as chancellor, more than anyone, knows the difference between rich and poor but still chose the lazy option of aligning the WFA with pension credit, and she’s fully aware of the effect it will have on those just above the threshold. If all pensioners who are entitled take up pension credit, that will not only wipe out the savings from means testing, but will add more to the benefits bill. Spectacular unintended consequences.

And that £23bn isn’t pensioner entitlement alone. It’s the total amount of benefits which go unclaimed each year, including working age benefits. £2.2bn is the 2024 figure for unclaimed pension credit, which has a knock on effect on other associated benefits, including £5bn of unclaimed benefits administered a local authority level.

Edited

If all pensioners who are entitled take up pension credit, that will not only wipe out the savings from means testing, but will add more to the benefits bill.

That’s not how allocation of funds work in government. And if not solely eligibility for pension credit that is the determiner. It’s pension credit, UC, Income Support, jobseeker's allowance, employment and support allowance, child tax credit or working tax credit.

justasking111 · 29/09/2024 09:56

Rosscameasdoody · 29/09/2024 09:35

You can’t claim PIP past retirement age but you can make a claim for attendance allowance - disability benefit for those over retirement age. It won’t automatically qualify you for a blue badge because there is no mobility component - it looks at how your disability affects everyday life, to assess your care needs. But if you get an award it will help significantly as supporting evidence for the blue badge application. I would still make a complaint to the LA - they really should have seen you face to face as the amount of pain you are in as well as the distance you can walk/any aids you use are all relevant to the application and can’t be quantified on paper. And asking you to provide a receipt for a walking stick is beyond ludicrous. All you need is for your GP or other healthcare professional involved with you, to confirm that you need to use a walking aid. Please feel free to PM me if you think l can help.

Edited

Thank you. Unfortunately there's no way to contact them. There's no email address, no telephone number only this bloody form which has timed out now.

It's not like I'm asking for money just the ability to use it disabled space.

Didimum · 29/09/2024 09:57

Rosscameasdoody · 29/09/2024 09:45

No they won’t. If you’re even 50p above the ludicrously low threshold you won’t qualify and will lose out on £200-£300 worth of support. £218.15 a week dosn’t make a wealthy pensioner. Reeves knew exactly what she was doing by tying WFP to pension credit. They were braced for a backlash from the start.

I said MOST in need, See my post above, it’s not just pension credit eligibility.

Brahumbug · 29/09/2024 09:57

Dorisbonson · 29/09/2024 09:53

I understood they held an election after that and won it pretty convincingly so that indicates the electorate disagreed with you. Interestingly Corbyn won more votes in 2019 than Starmer in 2024.

Either way as far as I'm concerned they are all a bunch of corrupt charlatans. The tories are about to elect another loser as their leader and probably someone was part of the last bunch of incompetent crooks and offer that as choice to Starmer. Where is the choice? I don't want to vote for any of these people.

Whether they win an election or not is irrelevant. The proroguing of parliament was unlawful and against the constitution. The lack of respect for the rule of law should concern everyone, regardless of political views.

justasking111 · 29/09/2024 09:58

FiveFoxes · 29/09/2024 09:38

@justasking111 Have you looked into Attendance Allowance which is for retired people? There is a massive form for it too, but take it slowly and you'll get through it. Also, it needs to be you on your worst days. This should also help you with a blue badge.

I don't need an attendance allowance I have a husband. He helps me a lot.

Iwishicouldflyhigh · 29/09/2024 09:58

TealTraybake · 28/09/2024 19:17

Yes. The hypocrisy, incompetence, acceptance of gifts, lack of care for the vulnerable, and the RD resignation - all somewhat send a sense of impending political doom.

On the plus side for some, the VAT on school fees probably won’t happen. Although that’s already fcked up some vulnerable kids who’ve had to move schools already. Despicable.

What makes you think it won’t happen (praying you are correct!)?

Fescue · 29/09/2024 09:59

Coruscations · 29/09/2024 09:28

Anyone who doesn't believe the spending black hole exists is in cloud cuckoo land. We have plenty of evidence of the billions wasted during the pandemic and on ridiculous initiatives like the Rwanda plan, to say nothing of the billions lost because of Brexit and Truss. If you still doubt it, how do you account for all that underspending on health, education, the justice system, prisons, social care etc? If the Tories thought they had a healthy economy at the beginning of this year, do you seriously believe they wouldn't have been throwing money at all those problems to try to improve their electability?

We all need to go right back in history before laying the blame on any single party.

In the last financial year the UK spent £108 billion on interest repayments servicing national debt. That is £1 for every £8 raised in tax revenue. It is also equivalent to about £3,850 per annum for every UK household. In other words, taxes are higher by 15% to cover this cost, with the majority falling on the higher earners.

This interest is paid on a debt mountain of £3 trillion. You can split it broadly into thirds. The first £1 trillion was handed over by Labour in 2010. Another £1 trillion was added by the Conservatives between then and 2024. The remaining third is largely down to the Great Recession and Covid, where I am convinced the same actions would have been taken by either government. You can split that last £1 trillion equally between the two parties.

Some debt is sensible. We are neither Norway nor Singapore so a sovereign wealth fund is not on the cards anytime soon. But £3 trillion is high and unsustainable where, after 25 years of containment, inflation is back with us once more. So far we have heard there will be no return to austerity and no increases to the four forms of taxation that contribute 86% of tax revenue.

Reeves' budget next month is going to be interesting. Unless Labour has discovered some form of miraculous economic management that all the brains in the world have so far failed to discover, we will see some massive U-turns and a change of rhetoric.

Neither party over the last 25 years has clean hands when it comes to sound economic management.

DancingPhantomsOnTheTerrace · 29/09/2024 10:01

@ByMerryKoala no, the research was that 4,000 excess deaths had been prevented by the introduction of the WFA, and they said that would be reversed under the Tories. That can only have been looking at removing it as a whole, as the 4,000 deaths prevented came from introducing it as a whole.

They (misleadingly, tbh) used it to say the Tory policy of means testing would cause 4,000 deaths. They were partly able to do this because the Tory manifesto just said "means testing" but didn't specify a level, so they gave a figure for removing it all. But the research was not that 4,000 deaths would come from means testing it.

ByMerryKoala · 29/09/2024 10:02

DancingPhantomsOnTheTerrace · 29/09/2024 10:01

@ByMerryKoala no, the research was that 4,000 excess deaths had been prevented by the introduction of the WFA, and they said that would be reversed under the Tories. That can only have been looking at removing it as a whole, as the 4,000 deaths prevented came from introducing it as a whole.

They (misleadingly, tbh) used it to say the Tory policy of means testing would cause 4,000 deaths. They were partly able to do this because the Tory manifesto just said "means testing" but didn't specify a level, so they gave a figure for removing it all. But the research was not that 4,000 deaths would come from means testing it.

"The Conservatives’ policy of means testing the winter fuel allowance for pensioners could contribute to almost 4,000 extra deaths this winter, Labour has said"

ChallahPlaiter · 29/09/2024 10:02

ByMerryKoala · 29/09/2024 09:47

Labour were under the impression that 4000 pensioners would die had the Tories implemented this policy in 2017 - back when gas didn't cost half of what it does per kwh now. But apparently labour posters aren't too bothered.

Edited

I’m ambivalent about the new government. But if people on lower incomes consistently need hundreds of pounds to cover their essential bills, isn’t that a problem with energy costs being too high? And the government is setting up a nationalised energy company which aims to alleviate that.
Is it sustainable for the welfare state to perpetually cover people’s essential bills because of a dysfunctional capitalist system, be those housing costs, high energy bills (with companies posting huge profits) or by subsidising low pay?

justasking111 · 29/09/2024 10:03

Didimum · 29/09/2024 09:46

That’s an issue with your local council – not central government.

I was making a point that people who've never had to fill in a form, will struggle enormously. It's humiliating when a form takes an hour to complete and then you're told you've done it wrong, go away. Or start all over again.

DancingPhantomsOnTheTerrace · 29/09/2024 10:03

@ByMerryKoala yes, as I've said, they were misleading in their use of that figure.

Didimum · 29/09/2024 10:04

Rosscameasdoody · 29/09/2024 09:53

Not really. If disability benefits for pensioners included a mobility component (which attendance allowance doesn’t because it considers mobility issues after age 66 to be age related and not down to disability) then pensioners would have the same opportunity to qualify automatically for a blue badge as recipients of PIP and ADP. It’s long been thought that AA should offer a mobility component for those who had mobility issues before age 66. That policy is set at government level.

Edited

The Department of Transport is responsible for that legislation. In any case, it’s certainly not Starmer to blame for your blue badge form woes.

Didimum · 29/09/2024 10:05

justasking111 · 29/09/2024 10:03

I was making a point that people who've never had to fill in a form, will struggle enormously. It's humiliating when a form takes an hour to complete and then you're told you've done it wrong, go away. Or start all over again.

The inconvenience to fill out a form is in no way, shape or form a reason to keep WFA a blanket benefit.

ByMerryKoala · 29/09/2024 10:06

DancingPhantomsOnTheTerrace · 29/09/2024 10:03

@ByMerryKoala yes, as I've said, they were misleading in their use of that figure.

Oh, okay, they were lying about the threat of means testing the winter fuel allowance until they were in striking distance of governance? Got you. Stand up bunch, really.

ChallahPlaiter · 29/09/2024 10:10

justasking111 · 29/09/2024 09:56

Thank you. Unfortunately there's no way to contact them. There's no email address, no telephone number only this bloody form which has timed out now.

It's not like I'm asking for money just the ability to use it disabled space.

If you look on your council’s website there should be a contact number for blue badge applications. Otherwise you could call the council’s switchboard and ask to be put through. Councils administer blue badges so there will be someone who deals with applications.
You might also have some success contacting your local councillor/MP/CAB. I do blue badge applications at work from time to time and they shouldn’t be as complicated as yours has been.

pleasehelpwi3 · 29/09/2024 10:11

Rosscameasdoody · 29/09/2024 09:18

I would be more inclined to hold the Tories to account for the ‘black hole’ if we had more tangible evidence that it actually exists. There’s a curious lack of detail around it apart from ‘uncosted plans’. It’s allowed Labour to row back on manifesto spending and I suspect, to bring forward many other measures they had always intended to introduce later on, with the perfect excuse. WFA cut ? Blame the Tories. Savage budget making us all poorer and cutting support to the sick and disabled ? Blame the Tories. And on and on

The WFA needed to be means tested out of the hands of people like your wealthy parents, but lazy means testing at pension credit level supporting those on the bones of their arses isn’t the way to do it.

Starmers’ clothing, and glasses, and private sports box, and Taylor Swift tickets and various gifts that Reeves didn’t declare, plus giving Lord Ali the run of Downing Street, etc, etc, may not be on the scale of Tory corruption but it’s definitely not a good look when you’re standing on a podium trying to rally the country into years of yet more austerity dressed up as ‘fixing the foundations’ and promising yet more ‘jam tomorrow’. If there’s one thing the people of this country have learned over the last 14 years is that tomorrow never comes.

And I’m astounded that you think Labours’ handling of the riots were anything even approaching effective. The undercurrent of unrest that currently exists won’t be addressed by labelling disenfranchised and disillusioned people as right wing thugs.

Edited

Part of the black hole was Hunt's calculation that public pay would rise by just 2%. How was this ever going to hold?

I'd describe trying to burn asylum seekers alive as far-right thuggery.
I felt disenfranchised and disillusioned with the last governement- I didn't try and burn down my local Tory MP's office with him and his staff inside.

ThisOldThang · 29/09/2024 10:13

Fescue · 29/09/2024 09:59

We all need to go right back in history before laying the blame on any single party.

In the last financial year the UK spent £108 billion on interest repayments servicing national debt. That is £1 for every £8 raised in tax revenue. It is also equivalent to about £3,850 per annum for every UK household. In other words, taxes are higher by 15% to cover this cost, with the majority falling on the higher earners.

This interest is paid on a debt mountain of £3 trillion. You can split it broadly into thirds. The first £1 trillion was handed over by Labour in 2010. Another £1 trillion was added by the Conservatives between then and 2024. The remaining third is largely down to the Great Recession and Covid, where I am convinced the same actions would have been taken by either government. You can split that last £1 trillion equally between the two parties.

Some debt is sensible. We are neither Norway nor Singapore so a sovereign wealth fund is not on the cards anytime soon. But £3 trillion is high and unsustainable where, after 25 years of containment, inflation is back with us once more. So far we have heard there will be no return to austerity and no increases to the four forms of taxation that contribute 86% of tax revenue.

Reeves' budget next month is going to be interesting. Unless Labour has discovered some form of miraculous economic management that all the brains in the world have so far failed to discover, we will see some massive U-turns and a change of rhetoric.

Neither party over the last 25 years has clean hands when it comes to sound economic management.

This is the crux of the problem and one that the Everything Should Be Free brigade refuse to acknowledge.

There need to be big cuts to government spending - including benefits, PIP, DLA, final salary government pensions, civil service, foreign aid, everything.

Unless the debt can be brought under control, we're heading for national bankruptcy and IMF enforced cuts which could mean the end of the welfare state and NHS.

DancingPhantomsOnTheTerrace · 29/09/2024 10:13

@ByMerryKoala yes, that's correct. They were using research that said introducing the WFA prevented 4,000 excess deaths. And then when the Tories said they'd means test it, they said that that was almost 4,000 deaths that may result from that policy. The Tories didn't give a level for means testing in their manifesto, they just said "means testing" which is arguably what allowed labour to suggest the highest possible figure of almost all the previously prevented deaths. I mean, theoretically it could have been true, if the means testing had been well below the pension credit limit for example.

To be fair, presenting the worst possible outcome of another party's policy is pretty standard. For example, when Labour was calling for it, Hunt was very clear that changing non-dom status would not raise more money. Until of course he introduced a policy to change non-dom status, when suddenly it would raise money.

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