NC Parents Secretly Seeing Kids

[AlliBali]

We're NC with my in-laws. Been NC for a year as a result of years of bad behaviours. Not got space to go into details but things like being openly hostile to me and SIL (it's DH and BIL's parents). Having little interest in my DD because she has additional needs, telling me to stop being lazy and taking advantage of DH when I was struggling with post partum depression (MIL openly thinks MH issues are just people being weak) the list is long and lots of stuff we're both just not willing to put up with anymore.

We discovered yesterday that DS15 has been meeting up with his GP's for 7 months against our wishes (he's aware of the NC and some of the general reasons why but no details). In-laws live in 30 mins away and have been texting him, arranging meet ups and telling him to keep it secret. He's been heading out to meet his friends and has instead been meeting GPs. We found out because we bumped into the friend he was meant to be meeting, asked DS when he got home and he told us the truth.

I'm livid, I honestly think this is mostly motivated by a defiance of our wishes, part of the NC was a general disinterest in all the grandkids so this recent interest is totally out of character. One of the traits of my MIL is always having to get the last word and the sense of one upmanship and triumph it brings so I'm convinced this is a part of this.

Really don't know what to do. DS says he feels bad sneaking round but doesn't want to let his GP down. I want to nip this in the bud. I've text MIL and asked her to stop and she's resonded:

"you can't stop me meeting up with who I want to, he's my grandson and I'm entitled to see him, you may think you can dictate to people but I've got news for you.....you can't."

Any ideas how to deal with this? I'm totally at a loss, I'm worried by telling DS to stop it continues to happen in secret.

I think this is why id go with him. They will struggle to hide their toxicity if they have to engage in adult chat and obviously he will be there with you so id have an opportunity to slyly raise it in the car with dh so ds can hear. "Can you believe they said ... offensive statement..." and then invite them over st the same time as ds has friends over because he will soon realise he is scared to be embarrassed y them.

The best way to stop him seeing them os to make it his choice.

People are forgetting to that when texted about why are you meeting my son instead of the grandma being look i am sorry if upset you she went all attitude with you can't tell me what to do that's nasty . It shows she's not decent and doesn't care if it upsets them and that op is correct manipulative

What an awful situation. You can't stop your son seeing his grandparents but you can tell him calmly and factually why you and DH have stopped seeing them and say that it's his choice. Don't let it be a secret. Forbidden fruit is attractive for teenagers.

Read my posts.

They had very little pre-NC contact certainly in the last few years. They've not been in more regular contact since pre covid.

We've gone NC due to a whole host of reasons that our DC are generally oblivious to

Because there was very little pre-NC contact we didn't see the need to go into lots of details about the NC decision

After NC, they've initiated and maintained contact and told him to keep it secret.

The whole dynamic has now changed so we're going to revisit the discussions about NC and give him all the details.

ok
but i’ll be very surprised if a 15 year old has no idea his GPs are foaming at the mouth racists, homophobia’s, sexists etc

which is a little disturbing in itself

I don’t think OP mentioned sexist or homophobic views, but go ahead and condemn some people you don’t know for something which they may not have done.

Virtue signalling at its finest.

they’ll be bribing him if he saw them 3x the previous year and barely before then.

Id be a bit 🤔 at my son taking money off his grandparents in secret and id be even more 🤨 at him going to all the effort of visiting them half hour away and instead of seeing his friends - all for money

**It's talking about how disgusting Muslims are coming here on boats and raping women
It's saying that people on benefits are lazy and not worthy of state help
It's saying that people who have depression need to have a word with themselves and of course life is hard
It's saying that the UK is losing its Englishness.

a real reach to imagine they’re close minded about other warps of life given just here alone we have
racism
classism
mental health denial
xenophobia

by all means Be Kind

I'd be worried mainly that he didn't see 'keep this a secret from your mum and dad' as dodgy tbh. I know what teenage boys are like and they feel like they're in a special game getting one-up on parents but also know it's family so it's 'fine'.

Maybe ask did he think about why they wanted it to be kept secret and whether that was the right thing to do? What were his thought processes around this, as it sounds like he's still got a bit of learning to do about the real world?

As others say, he's free to contact them but if you just sort of say 'well if that's what you want' he will probably leave off. If he knows what they called his sister he might be appalled (?)

This. As a parent, you need to put your wants and needs to one side. Your MIL is your son's GM and at 15, he can make the choice. He will end up resenting you if you don't support him. And there shouldn't be a need for secrets.

I'm sorry your in laws sound horrible but your son is 15 and old enough to make his own mind up. He is bound to he curious about people who are very close relatives.

Disagree

I'm no contact with my mum but my son still visits her. If she treats your son well and you aren't worried about her being abusive to him let him make his own decisions.
I hate it when my son visits my mum but it's none of my business anymore.

You have done your son a huge disservice by expecting him to go NC with his GPs without knowing why! You made him vulnerable to manipulation by doing this. I think you need to acknowledge this and apologise to him if you want him to be sympathetic to your position.

Even now you are considering hiding from them what they said about his sister. He is old enough to hear it. He is also entitled to a relationship with his GPs, if he chooses.

The fact that it will upset him and possibly hurt his feelings is the reason you really need to tell him that part too. First, he has a right to know it all. If he doesn't know it all, he is open to his ghastly grandparent's influence, and I am betting they are using him to get back at you all. Hence, the "keeping secrets". Second, anyone, no matter who they are in relation to your family should never, ever be able to get away with the horribly unkind and outright nasty comments about your DD and his dear sister. That is not having "old-fashioned" views. That is having hateful and ableist views and should never be excused away for any reason.

The fact that they do, indeed, bribe your son to keep in contact with them is loathsome in itself. They are two horrid, nasty pieces of work, and bravo to you and BIL/SIL for going NC.

I think it is entirely possible that a 15 year old knows his grandparents have some questionable beliefs but put it down to their age. Your DS doesn't know fully the disgusting things they have said because you have (naturally) protected him. The important thing to emphasise is that encouraging him to lie to you is wrong.

Tell him why you went NC, say how hurt and upset you were because of your DD and that's why you didn't give him details before. If he wants to keep in touch, and meet up, then he can (you should even facilitate) but you don't want it to be a secret. It's quite likely he won't carry on. Or he will challenge them and they'll deny it. The novelty of a clandestine relationship will fade quickly for both sides when it's no longer a secret.

I would start by telling your son this and explaining you didn’t tell him or his sister this because, it’s so disgusting and hurtful, you wanted to protect them.

My partners grandparents are late 80s and hold similar views to your PILs, we tolerate this and just politely correct them because they’re ignorant but not malicious or unkind. Your son may try to do the same if he thinks this is about racism or outdated views but no one could think saying that about his sister is forgivable/tolerable.

This.

If a 15 yr old wants to see his grandparents, he should be able to.

They don't sound like nice people, but your son has the right to make these decisions.

We have gone NC for periods of time with SIL (MH issues and a tendency towards very toxic behaviour) but we have always facilitated her having contact with my SD. It's more tricky if your child is too young to communicate without your involvement and I wouldn't expect you to go out of your way to connect him with them but he's 15 and his relationship with them is independent of you.

The best path IMO is to allow him to see them as he's 15 and is making that choice, but don't make him feel he has to keep it a secret. Go along with it, let him know he's doesn't have to sneak around, let him talk about it, and that way, if anything genuinely concerning about their meetings arises, you are more likely to know about it if he can speak freely to you. If not, you have no chance of knowing anything that's happening.

But also he should know why his parents dont want a relationship with them.

I think he needs to know what his Grandfather said about his disabled sister, frankly. It's grim, and I hope he'll keep it from his sister, but it's the one thing that would really justify you going NC.

A 15 year old might make excuses for their racist talk, ' they don't really mean it'. But surely he wouldn't forgive them that.

@rrrrrreatt said it better than me. I hadn't seen their post when I wrote mine. But yes, that.

@AlliBali
Unfortunately its far to late to tell him no. That ship has already sailed.

I see that you chosen not to punish him, that is good, so is the fact that you have accepted responsibility for your part in that. as any punishment could be push him closer to them.

I also see that he has not had regular contact with them at any point so it is possible that he has not yet seen their behaviour.

All you can do is tell him the truth and take him to see them when he asks and support your DS.
Given their past behaviour it won't be long before they show him who they really are.

I think you need to have a (series of) careful chat(s) with your son about this. The important things to me would be that you need to know where he is (particularly now he’s older and has more freedom to get himself around) and you don’t want to be keeping secrets from each other. That’s the non-negotiable part.

Then, as others have suggested, say that when he was younger he needed to trust you’d made the right decision about NC. Now he’s older, he can make that decision himself. Tell him why you went NC, including their comments about his sister. You might point out that they haven’t got back in contact with her… He is old enough to choose his own friends and start to have a say in who he spends time with. And just like you might say if you think a new friend doesn’t seem very nice, you’re saying you don’t think his grandparents are nice people. It’s still up to him if he wants to see them.

Let him think about it. Then if he still wants to meet up, let him (it’s well within normal family relations for a teen to have “elderly” relatives - and 70+ will be ancient to a teen! - where they put up with some occasional racist comments for a family connection and the odd tenner).

It will probably boil your PILs’ piss if you cooperate, drop him off, pick him up, discuss what they do/say with him on the way home. Stay NC yourself but don’t engage in a petty war over who your 15yo can speak to.