Child identifies as a wolf ... WTF?

[Portakalkedi]

Just on Radio 4 now, discussing a child in secondary school who identifies as a wolf, and the school is going along with this. AIBU to think the world (or at least the UK) has gone mad? If said child is living in the woods, catching its own prey etc etc, howling and running with other wolves, which I doubt, then why the hell is anyone going along with it? They are also saying that some others identify as dogs or cats etc. And here was me thinking men 'identifying' as women was bad.

Personally I think there should be a lot more encouragement for people to look outside of themselves, rather than all this obsession with their own identity. To function healthily in this world requires an understanding of it and the other people in it. If a young person is spending large parts of their day preoccupied with themselves, who or what they are, the presentation they give of themselves to the world, they are missing out on crucial opportunities to learn about others. Emotional intelligence and awareness is hugely important and self absorption blocks this learning.

The fact finding in the R4 programme is is well worth listening to and quite far from the speculation on the thread. (4m 15 to 5m45)

There was a girl of around 10/11 in the play area of the local woods the other day, with a fox tail and ears. She was jumping on all the picnic tables. Her mother sat chatting and didn't once tell her to get down.

Not at all, like I said my sister is a teacher that would not entertain this stuff at all. But the fact is there are various lobby groups and training/resource providers who do push this stuff and many schools use them and end up with a skewed idea of things. There are also some worrying LGBT groups in some schools.

Yes but a transwoman is not manifestly a woman are they? It’s not much of leap. It’s ridiculous, yes, but you can hardly be surprised kids are being so confused.

That 1) there is no compelling evidence anyone identifies as an animal to the same extent as a trans person identifies as the opposite gender 2) that I think its far more likely someone could have a condition that led them to believe they were a different type of human (so still able to engage with the world as they always have, just differently presented) than a different type of animal (so not able to engage with the world in the way a human does).

I think "well people believe they can be the opposite sex so why wouldn't they believe they can be a cat" is a facile argument that has no depth of critical thought or observation applied to it.

Exactly. I think cat owners may believe this myth because they never actually see them going. The neighbours get that honour.

I think believing a man can be a woman or vice versa shows no critical thought or observation and it certainly has no depth to it.

if the brain can go wrong and make you feel like a man when you’re a woman why can’t it make you think you’re a wolf? Although I tend to think it’s more of a grooming issue in a lot of cases. You have to have a strong stomach to google adult furries.

I don't believe men can become women. However we all know this is a disorder some men have. We see trans women out and about. We read articles about them. We know they exist.

There is no evidence of "children identifying as wolves" in the same way. Some kids wear cat ear headbands. Meh. They are cute. Ariana Grande wears them. It doesn't mean they think they are cats.

And what if I think that’s primarily a fetish thing ( tons of evidence to back that up.

a quick google will find you tons of people identifying as animals some have even had surgery to look like cats and lizards and stuff, not much different to so-called gender affirming surgery. You’d be called a bigot by some of them if you told them they were just dressing up to look cute.

That 1) there is no compelling evidence anyone identifies as an animal to the same extent as a trans person identifies as the opposite gender

And how are you measuring the extent to which someone 'identifies' as something else. What metrics?

2) that I think its far more likely someone could have a condition that led them to believe they were a different type of human (so still able to engage with the world as they always have, just differently presented) than a different type of animal

But why? If a condition can led them to believe they're another sex, why not other conditions that would lead them to believe they're another race, age, ability level, or indeed species?

I belive clay based litter is good at putting out fires but I have no proof of this .

I don't believe men can become women. However we all know this is a disorder some men have. We see trans women out and about. We read articles about them. We know they exist.

We see people present as the opposite sex. What lies behind this is probably very varied. There is no clear evidence of a specific disorder.

Trans able-ism is something that's visible and documented by the way. Just for your reference.

If someone genuinely believed they were a cat, and wanted to live "as a cat":

1. they'd be on 4 legs all the time
2. they'd be an obligate carnivore and only eat meat
3. they'd spend 22 hours a day asleep
4. they'd be up trees etc
5. they wouldn't be able to use their thumbs so no phone, TV, cloths (cos buttons and zips).

They would be pretty obvious in society. They aren't there. I think it wouldn't take long for a bipedal ape pretending to be a cat to get injured, sick or bored of the lifestyle.

This is what I mean. There is a difference between "logically it's the same" and "in reality people identify as cats". In reality people don't identify as cats in any meaningful way and it's about as relevant as them believing in God. Meh.

But the same could be said for men who identify as women couldn’t it? They don’t do everything women do because they can’t because they aren’t the same at all. Doesn’t stop them. Doesn’t mean they haven’t deluded themselves into thinking they are that thing does it?

When I lived in Sweden, I had an aquaintance who self-identified as a cat. There was a TV show made about her so I presume it's fairly rare. She successfully used legislation for transexual humans to protect her rights as a transpecies cat. That was about 7 years ago now, so it's hardly surprising it has happened somewhere else too. I think the logic she used was, if you can self-identify your sex, why not your skin colour, age and species.

As a teacher I can assure you we don’t want to pander to this shite. But with pressure from parents, council, unions etc we have no choice.

Men don't identify as women in any meaningful way either. It's usually all about the clothes and the makeup, never the mental load women tend to take on in the household, the gender pay gap, dealing with women's specific health issues or hormone cycles, the different expectations of women socially, emotionally, as a caregiver, etc. It's totally superficial

And apart from that, the argument isn’t that they’re cats, just that they think they are and if they’re delusional enough to think that they’re probably delusional enough to think they can be a cat who walks on two legs and poos on a regular toilet etc.

of course many of them will just plain be pretending and then the issue is why is a angle person pander to them.

Sorry you're having to deal with this, what an awful time to be a teacher.

Furries don't really think they're cats any more than goths wouldn't seek medical help in an emergency on account of them being already undead.

We should absolutely turn the internet off and on again, it's cringe, but that applies just as much to the people who fall for the Daily Mail clickbait as it does to teenagers who have spent too long on Reddit.

1) there is no compelling evidence anyone identifies as an animal to the same extent as a trans person identifies as the opposite gender

When a child (this thread is about children) tell me that they have a gender identity, I treat it as seriously as them telling me that they are a cat. Both kids probably equally believe in those statements in that moment.

I’d agree most don’t but there are absolutely some who do I think they call themselves something else though.

i don’t know why it’s so hard to believe. My brother has schizophrenia and he believes some mind blowingly insane things quite sincerely and will often get upset if we very kindly do not agree those things are true. This kind of thing isn’t real much different at the end of the day. People and brains are weird.

As it happens, I think I've pretty much completed parenting. Our daughter's 30, and doing really rather well in life.

Thanks for asking, though.

When a grown man goes to these lengths, you can't really blame the kids, can you?

https://www.ndtv.com/offbeat/japanese-man-who-transformed-into-a-dog-now-wants-to-become-a-panda-or-fox-5747916