Child identifies as a wolf ... WTF?

[Portakalkedi]

Just on Radio 4 now, discussing a child in secondary school who identifies as a wolf, and the school is going along with this. AIBU to think the world (or at least the UK) has gone mad? If said child is living in the woods, catching its own prey etc etc, howling and running with other wolves, which I doubt, then why the hell is anyone going along with it? They are also saying that some others identify as dogs or cats etc. And here was me thinking men 'identifying' as women was bad.

Ahhh this with bells on. Thank you 🙏🏻

There are many, many ways in which children can be harmed.

Safeguarding takes multiple forms and is of imperative importance.

I am 100% confident in the above being true.

I expect most would also agree that there are some cases where some (a few) adults genuinely feel so alien in their bodies that transitioning might be right thing to do.
But that's not good enough for stonewall/mermaids/the trans cheerleaders who are pushing an agenda of trans being a viable and easily reached option that should be discussed and explored in young children.

ohhh yessss! Just like when stonewall and co. advocated for being gay to be normalised and accepted, and for gay people to have equal rights and health care and be protected from discrimination.
And then they started telling children about it.
And then all the children were gayed! And nobody knew what a heterosexual was anymore!
And then society collapsed and everyone thought they were dogs and cats.
oh wait….

I agree! Crazy! The world has gone mad. Well the Western world has!

I can't be bothered to play whack-a-mole on this thread any more.

The ridiculous forced-teaming of LGB and T lends itself far too easily to utter nonsense like the comment above 🤦‍♀️

And then all the children were gayed! And nobody knew what a heterosexual was anymore!

One last time before I go: being gay is perfectly normal, nobody can be forced to be gay, everyone figures out their own sexual orientation in their own time..... unless they get outside influences convincing them that they probably aren't a lesbian girl/woman but... because they like short hair, and "boys' clothes" and are attracted to women..... they are probably a straight bloke. Likewise with boys/men who like glittery things and dolls and/or are gay.

Time to Think by Hannah Barnes is a great book which explores the concerns raised by gender clinic staff about "transing away the gay". As with other "bigots" like me, Hannah takes the time to listen to people who are happy in their transition, as well as people with concerns. Anyway, I'm trotting off now to clutch my pearls 🦪

<flounces off stage left, channeling Mary Whitehouse (minus the racism and homophobia)>

Edited to remove my expression of exasperation. Hopefully that should prevent my flounce from being deleted, by keeping it within the MN guidelines. It was cathartic writing it either way 😁

unless they get outside influences convincing them that they probably aren't a lesbian girl/woman but... because they like short hair, and "boys' clothes" and are attracted to women..... they are probably a straight bloke. Likewise with boys/men who like glittery things and dolls and/or are gay.

that doesn’t happen with gay kids and it doesn’t happen with trans kids.
HTH.

Indeed. Children can and are abused emotionally and by neglect as well as sexually and physically. It's why parents have such a challenging job - establishing effective boundaries that protect children while allowing them to go out into the world but stay safe.

That's why Mumsnet is so great - it allows parents (mainly women) to explore these issues, talk things through, work out what's "trivial" and what's a real threat to children in a (relatively) safe environment. That's why it's so unhelpful when some posters ridicule safeguarding discussions or frame people as conspiracy theorists etc. There've been a number of parents who have shared their experiences and thank you to them. Hopefully most of the responses have been constructive.

Yes it does. That’s the essence of gender ideology. Lesbian teenagers are told that because they have stereotypically masculine interests they’re actually boys, and because they’re boys who like girls that makes them straight. Gender ideology definitions, on Stonewall’s website no less, are clear on this.

'spout'
'bigoted'

And the piece de resistance: 'nonesense'.

Why can’t primary schools just keep things simple. Boys are boys etc & girls, girls is message for now, or no gender identity explicit teaching required etc? They’re children at school, there to be taught. Why confuse with complexity at this stage? Not to say not inclusive etc but 3 Rs & fun through learning key for now?

It really doesn’t, and Lord knows what you mean by “gender ideology” but being a girl with “stereotypically masculine interests” (whatever those are) does not make a person trans. And trans people can be gay or straight or bisexual just like anyone else.

Again, I can't believe we need to keep pointing this out, but one of the major differences between talking to children about their gender identity versus their sexual orientation is the long term implications.

As the Cass report makes plain, social transitioning is not a neutral act and has the potential to make medical transition more likely.

Medical transition involves any of the following - puberty blockers, cross sex hormones, surgery. These all have long term health implications. They are not simply something you can opt out of once you're on that path. Even something like taking testosterone for a short period of time can have negative health implications many years later.

Detransition is a growing phenomenon. There are many people finding them on trans 'pathways' that they later realise are not right for them. As the Cass report also makes plain, detailed record keeping on the outcomes of these children have not been kept. We have no idea what the true rates of regret are.

THIS is what we are dealing with. And schools are at the front line because social transitioning is where everything starts.

Clapping this all on, uncritically, like it's a rerun of gay rights in the 1990s/2000s is not good enough here. The stakes are much higher. We need to safeguard these children to make sure they don't take decisions that they might later regret.

but being a girl with “stereotypically masculine interests” (whatever those are) does not make a person trans. And trans people can be gay or straight or bisexual just like anyone else.

You'll get no argument here on that. But try telling that to Stonewall and many other TRAs.

Not talking to children about gender identity also has “long term implications”.

social transitioning is not a neutral act
Denying the children the option to socially transition is equally “not a neutral act”.
and has the potential to make medical transition more likely
There is no evidence for this whatsoever it is pure speculation.

They are not simply something you can opt out of once you're on that path
There is no “path” and you can absolutely opt out of taking PBs or hormones at any point. Like all areas of medicine there are side effects- some of which may be lasting, especially with long term use- and we need to balance the risks and benefits when prescribing , through individual assessment by an experienced clinician.

Stonewall are 100% aware of this, as is anyone who knows anything about being transgender.

Adding T to LGB was the biggest stroke of PR genius the trans movement could have possibly made. Now people equate being transgender with an oppressed sexual orientation, therefore it’s wrong to question it, just like it’s wrong to question being gay or lesbian or bisexual. Newsflash, being a man or woman has nothing to do with your sexual orientation.

social transitioning is not a neutral act
Denying the children the option to socially transition is equally “not a neutral act”.

I'm not sure there is evidence for this though. Postponing until the age of 18 though seems reasonable

and has the potential to make medical transition more likely
There is no evidence for this whatsoever it is pure speculation.

This is a key conclusion of the Cass report. So challenge Dr Cass if you think you have the authority

you can absolutely opt out of taking PBs or hormones at any point. Like all areas of medicine there are side effects- some of which may be lasting, especially with long term use- and we need to balance the risks and benefits when prescribing , through individual assessment by an experienced clinician.

Something like 95% of children on PB ended up on cross sex hormones, so this indicates that the pathway is hard to get off when you're on it.

There is significant concerns from many people that minors do not understand the long term implications and risks of the medications they are being put on.

A plea to you. These are children's lives we're talking about. Not just talking points to win arguments. Please think about this in depth.

The Cass report makes clear the need to pause and conduct proper testing and protocols before proceeding. Why anyone would argue against this is beyond me.

Yes it was very clever.

Amd immensely harmful for many of the children getting caught up in it.

I think it's very important for parents and teachers to read the Cass report if they want to find out more about this.

I love this comment 😃

and Lord knows what you mean by “gender ideology”

The belief system that says a person’s inner feeling of whether they’re a man or a woman (or neither) is more important than reality, and all the language that goes with that belief system.

but being a girl with “stereotypically masculine interests” (whatever those are) does not make a person trans.

You’d think so, wouldn’t you, but that’s what children are told and that’s what these teenagers say about themselves. And there’s no good explanation to what makes a person trans if you don’t believe someone can be “born in the wrong body”.

And trans people can be gay or straight or bisexual just like anyone else.

Of course they can, but gender ideology terminology dictates that it is same gender attraction that determines if someone is gay, not same sex attraction. So if a female identifies as a boy but is attracted to other females, she’s straight. Them’s the Stonewall rulez.

A mentally ill child and equally mentally ill parents for allowing this.

I have my views on the big gender debate which I won't go into, but a child, or any human, cannot identify as a wolf. It's absolute madness that people give this a platform like it's ok.

My school would have told me to get a grip; and rightfully so.

My daughter likes to play The omega wolf now and then as this is how kids role play.She knows she's a child.She does not let teachers brainwash her.The UK is a well fucked up place

A man is man a woman is a woman a child is a child a wolf is a wolf etch etch.you have to be mentally ill or brainwashed if you think otherwise

One of my DC was a cat for quite some time from about 3-7. It was because of very bad shyness it was something to hide behind. I didn’t really indulge it but I didn’t make a big fuss over it I just saw it as a phase they would grow out of. I called them by their normal name and treated them like a child who liked to pretend to be a cat sometimes. They did grow out of it and look back on it as a fond childhood time where it was just a desire to be a cat cos they are cute and it looks like a fun life sleeping and purring and stuff. They liked stuffed animals a lot but what helped was just getting them a real cat of their own as a pet and helping with their shyness. Then it stopped. Imagination play is normal but it’s not an identity that needs to take over their every day life