Child identifies as a wolf ... WTF?

[Portakalkedi]

Just on Radio 4 now, discussing a child in secondary school who identifies as a wolf, and the school is going along with this. AIBU to think the world (or at least the UK) has gone mad? If said child is living in the woods, catching its own prey etc etc, howling and running with other wolves, which I doubt, then why the hell is anyone going along with it? They are also saying that some others identify as dogs or cats etc. And here was me thinking men 'identifying' as women was bad.

Happy to withdraw the transactivist comment. Re clarifying - no feminist I know repeatedly criticises women or parents talking about safeguarding. Based on the number of occasions I've noticed you comment criticising safeguarding discussions on here I assumed you were a transactivist. But as I don't follow your posts closely am happy to be corrected.

Edited to apologise to the OP for any derail of her thread

Wow! A lot of bigoted responses here questioning if transgender people should be allowed to be themselves.

I hope all with this view have teenage kids or older. I’d hate to think of a mum making their young child bigoted.

Either way, if you want to get between the decisions a person makes for themselves & a doctor… perhaps just realise you don’t know much about the topic and stay quiet. All this nastiness & pearl clutching by the uninformed only harms people (adults and children).

Well said.

I can't see you making any reference to CassieMaddox being a trans rights activist on this thread at all.

However, I fully agree with your point that there are plenty of trans rights activists who do piggy back off Section 28 as a way to try and argue their point. Unfortunately this conflation of LGB with T does seem to cause just enough confusion in public discussion to allow TRAs to label people with concerns about child safeguarding in relation to these issues as "homophobic and transphobic" etc.

Hopefully the awareness that LGB and T are very different things is growing amongst young people - not just "dinosaurs" like me🤞
There is a very encouraging thread on another board, the OP written by a lesbian woman, which suggests that it might be 🤞 I won't link it here as it would be good to avoid it getting trounced all over by activists trying to sow confusion for as long as possible. Obviously it will get found eventually but so far so good - the one person who did disagree was pretty courteous about doing so.

Ah cool. Just seen your withdrawal of the trans activist comment.

My post above still stands as I didn't read it that you specifically called CassieMaddox a TRA.

However, as you say, it does seem odd for a "gender critical feminist" to clash in this way over safeguarding. It's even more odd to then bring in Section 28 and conflate LGB with T. It's certainly a niche brand of gender critical feminism, but as I don't think of myself as gender critical (I really don't like that term) what do I know?

OP, apologies for the derail from me too. This is my last comment on gender critical feminism!

If Wlfie needed a blood transfusion would they go to tge hisputal for human blood or send for Wokf blood?

Oh how very simplified.

It's not bigoted. It's the real world and there are real concerns which you are choosing to ignore. Most people on this thread would agree that body dysmorphia is a real - albeit very rare - condition. I expect most would also agree that there are some cases where some (a few) adults genuinely feel so alien in their bodies that transitioning might be right thing to do.

But that's not good enough for stonewall/mermaids/the trans cheerleaders who are pushing an agenda of trans being a viable and easily reached option that should be discussed and explored in young children. And so afraid are we of being of being seen anti-trans, that the agenda has seeped into classrooms and become a mainstream option. And now here we are with people wanting to self id as different species.

It might not harm me, but I believe it can harm and confuse children and young people, and it is not a healthy society when thousands of people feel confused and discontent in their own biology.

For some it's a fad, but unlike a stupid haircut, it can be very hard to retreat from, especially with online communities aggressively shutting down anyone who doesn't align with their thinking. You get involved in a community like that at aged 15, you'd find it very difficult to un-indoctrinate yourself if you feel differently about your body at 20.

It's interesting isn't it, that whilst there are many older people who talk about the regrets they have about not coming out as gay in their youth, because times were different and people were prejudiced and they were afraid.... Not so many people of older generations talk about the regret they have in accepting their sex and biology. I wonder why that is? Could it be because it wasn't being shoved down their throats and confusing the fuck out of them?

Plenty of people we are seeing are detransitioning. Some barely in adulthood allowed to do this. I swear one June every ad on YouTube was for a rainbow show and every commercial a PSA. It’s too much. This is another thing in a long line of things people have done to one another feeling passionately about for years that eventually history will decide was the wrong way to think of things. I put forth the examples to taking children from unmarried women or parents whose spouse abandoned them, the eugenics programs in the States to sterilize ‘undesirables’ and the sending indigenous to schools or other families to assimilate. All are shameful acts 20/20 hindsight and all that. I saw a my strange obsession show where people where indeed trying to animal print themselves and even wanting to transplant fur onto themselves. Cause they are animals. Just cause you have an urge to do something one minute doesn’t make it a life long thing.

You mean just like it was going around that children in America were identifying as cats because schools were buying cat litter and then the real story came out that they bought cat litter so kids could still go to the toilet in an active shooter situation

Not plenty of people

Or is it because hate still exists

Wow, WoodforTrees. That’s a lot of words to say “I’m not a bigot, but I really am”.

Most of this nonsense was said about gay people 30 years ago.

You are on your soapbox shouting “but what about the children”. Really children are harmed by people like you. Children should be accepted for who they are & this message isn’t an agenda or dangerous. Just listen to your own kids and leave others to do the same.

I’m often reminded of the quote “Why be homophobic, transphobic or racist when you can just be quiet?”

Define hate.

This is footage from a medical conference last year where doctors met to discuss the importance of evidence-based care for children and vulnerable young people who feel distressed about their bodies. The footage is of trans activists trying to disrupt the conference:

The Telegraph called it a "gender critical" conference but that's probably because there isn't really an established term for people who want to talk about the reality of biological sex when considering irrerversible medical interventions (there are some very serious medical complications linked to "gender affirming care) for anyone who believes that they have a gender identity that differs from their sex.

Here's a report about the children's BBC presenter, Dr Ronx, who was also outside the conference in the protest:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13231759/cbbc-medical-presenter-accused-trans-mob-storm-conference-puberty-blocker-row.html

Surely it's not hateful to want people who are distressed to access good medical care?

Correction: the conference was this year, not last. March 2024.

You want people with different views than yourself to stop talking. Why is that?

Nothing woodfortrees said was 'bigoted'.

You are just unable to discuss the issues because you subscribe to a faith based position that requires unquestioning aqcuiescence.

It's fine for you to believe whatever you wish, but you can't force others to share your beliefs.

Every teenager I know thinks this is all bullshit. They all know it's not possible to change sex.

And noting we can tick 'bigot', 'nasty' and 'pearl clutcher' off the bingo card, as well as a predictable attempt to stop people from talking.

'No debate ' has been over for years. We are going to talk about all of this stuff, I'm afraid.

Either way, if you want to get between the decisions a person makes for themselves & a doctor… perhaps just realise you don’t know much about the topic and stay quiet. All this nastiness & pearl clutching by the uninformed only harms people (adults and children).

Leaving aside the irony of "the uninformed", here is what the doctors were saying at the medical conference that was being protested in March (there are links to the talks):

https://can-sg.org/can-sg-conference/

Anyone can listen for themselves and decide if they were being "nasty". Spoiler alert: they were talking about the need for compassion and evidence-based care.

Whilst it's annoying when people come online and try shutting others down with words intended to shame like "pearl-clutching" and "bigoted", telling them to "stay quiet", it's downright irresponsible for protesters to try and stop doctors speaking about evidence-based healthcare.

Most of this nonsense was said about gay people 30 years ago.

Being gay doesn't include the removal of body parts. Yes, there were homophobic people saying awful things 30 years ago - sadly, there still are today - but LGB and T are not the same thing.

I wish people would start engaging with these complex issues instead of rushing in, with very little understanding, whacking the 'bigot' button to try to shut people up.

This generation deserve our proper scrutiny of what's going on and the impact on them. Not empty virtue signalling.

On a positive note, my generation will never be out of work, because the new ones are utterly useless.

Yes it is important to quote accurately, which is why I usually quote the whole post.

You also said A school's only role is to ensure that gender questioning children are referred to the right agencies for qualified support and that's it.. In conjunction with the previous para that sounded very much like banning schools discussing/teaching about gender identity. But of course its hard to write text in a way that is 100% clear,maybe that wasn't what you meant.

I'm not criticising talk about "safeguarding". I'm criticising the concept that the best way to "safeguard" teenagers is 1) not to talk to them about controversial stuff that's all over social media; 2) to instil in them that "adults know best" and they should defer to adults over their own thoughts about themselves.

In my opinion both these approaches are old fashioned and put teenager at more risk of abuse, rather than less risk.

I criticise approaches I believe will put children at risk, yes. So do you. Maybe you should accept the disagreement rather than insulting and smearing me whenever you can.

Claiming transgender is wrong is bigoted. Same as claiming there is something wrong with gay people is homophobic.

You can spout your views on here, I just wonder why you bother. Would be more useful to go reflect.

I’m sadly not suprised that bigoted parents have teenagers who agree. Teenagers adopt thier parents beliefs to begin. Many of those teenagers will learn and change, and they will not thank you for teaching them nonesense.

As a parent who has a transgender son your last sentence bothers me. It's not "bad"it's a fact of life and has been since beginning of time. Identifying as an animal is extreme but will probably pass but please don't dump transgender in to it. Until you have lived it you probably have absolutely no idea.

But what does this even mean? Claiming it's 'wrong'? Who is saying that?

If you really care about safeguarding & children’s safety then you could concentrate on the facts. Such as the fact that many children are beaten, abused and killed by men they know. Predominantly white men. Often their own fathers or step-fathers often.

Do something about a real problem like male violence against women and children.

Or by all means waste your time worrying about a false news story that a child identifies as a wolf and keep trying to degrade transgender people, who have always & will always exist.

Im sure deep down you know you are wrong.

great now even radio 4 is spreading this nonsense. Shouldn’t surprise me given their reporting during Covid. But still