Child identifies as a wolf ... WTF?

[Portakalkedi]

Just on Radio 4 now, discussing a child in secondary school who identifies as a wolf, and the school is going along with this. AIBU to think the world (or at least the UK) has gone mad? If said child is living in the woods, catching its own prey etc etc, howling and running with other wolves, which I doubt, then why the hell is anyone going along with it? They are also saying that some others identify as dogs or cats etc. And here was me thinking men 'identifying' as women was bad.

Yeah but is it true though...?

Also bringing up sororities. Lots of shared quarters. No one worries about sharing with a person of the same gender who is gay. But they do worry about sharing the same private space with a man who identifies as female. It’s not only about sexual assault. It’s just uncomfortable. There’s a fairly covered law suit and the women describe the female as having an erection at time while staring at them. When I was a kid there was a movie revenge of the nerds. It centered around frats and sororities. The nerds made up their own and a guy, very questionable in sexuality: identity or attraction was with the fraternity and accepted, he was not a nerd but didn’t feel he fit in. Not the sorority. I say questionable cause they really didn’t explain it then and likely would revisionist the entire character today. It was the 80’s. Of course the real revenge came from cell phones and the salary provided from software engineering. Those athletes didn’t stand a chance.

That 2% is predominately made up of DSDs that are totally unambiguous in terms of sex.

Your person with a womb/penis is an extreme outlier. Perhaps a handful of such people have ever existed. That is miles away from 2%.

There also appears to be pretty much zero correlation between those with these complex DSDs and those declaring themselves trans. Bringing DSDs is almost entirely irrelevant, simply an attempt to muddy the waters, rather than having any specificity to trans people.

So yes, transwomen are men. It's a defining characteristic in fact.

Its also got precisely zero to do with gay rights and increasingly, gay people are asking to decouple the T from the LBG.

So, again, I'm not seeing what is transphobic about any of this. Trans people deserve to be safe of course, but calling out their real sex is just statement of facts.

The reason why they've come up on this thread has been extensively explained.

Giving Wolf the attention by being on Radio programme is a nice way to reinforce the in-human behavior.

I feel very unsafe with wolf people in community.

Homosexuals and trans people have always existed. It was common in Egyptian and Greek society, Native Americans had 5 genders until the European christians got to them. Man, woman, man living as a woman, woman living as man and two spirts. To to Two spirit was considered to be a get blessing on the family and tribe.

God, I don't know how you stand it! Back in ye olden days, I was a creator on Second Life. It was full of virtual furries, being disgusting to the point they'd be rapists in real life (you couldn't rape an avatar in SL, for clarity. It was the way they talked.) At first I didn't get why there were so many squirrels and cats flying around, I found it funny. They did NOT like being laughed at.

An estimated 2% of the population has a DSD

1, The 2% number has been debunked as a gross overestimation
2, What do DSDs have to do with being transgender?

Revisionist history.

Gender non conforming people have always existed, sure.

Giving GNC people the option of a 'legal sex' that's different to their biological sex is entirely new.

What is new is prepubescent children claiming this and adults not thinking it could simply be a phase that comes and goes. If you were 21 and told me you were in the wrong body in 1993 I would have believed you. Now I just think it’s influence and other things going on with the individual or their parents. Attention seeking, depressed or anxious and someone promising them this will fix it when it won’t. This will be the eugenics program of the U.S., the laundries in Ireland, etc… Years from now adults will be asking for apologies and compensation for being rendered sterile and losing body parts they just can’t get back as minors. This seems to have really exploded during COVID. Going back to school everyone decided to declare pronouns on their emails. I don’t envy the people affected by this. Why not an animal? Why not another race? My BMI is not the best. But I told my doctor I identify as skinny. I was kidding of course. I was once’s when young. Why can’t I continue to have that perception and identity? Darn scale. It measures. Just like XX, XY is something that can be measured. Weird how the just trust science does not apply to this. Just cause you can change someone does not mean you should immediately. It used to be people were told to live as the other gender for a year. They got regular therapy as well for that time.

European Christian’s didn’t really get to the Egyptians. At least they were not on the scene for very long. It was forbidden in the empire Egypt was under for centuries, in place a few centuries then suppressed again ever since. Only a tiny part of the population technically Christian. And Greece the first Christian European country save Turkey bordering two continents. Before Christianity Greeks also used to abuse children in that particularly horrific way. Please don’t make me even type it out. Surely just cause it was done in the past does not mean it should be done in present day. Christianity ended infanticide as well. Christianity brought literacy to the masses and hospitals. Ask for the tuition back. Of course there have always been homosexuals. That is a matter of you like who you like. Not who you are. The Native Americans you speak of have strengths and warts like Christians and Greeks and everyone else. There were a few born or having an injury at a bris secular usually rare but it happens. Doctors told parents to pick. Then they fixed it. Sadly the children grew up and told all they picked wrong. Went against XX,XY. Later they decided to tell parents until the child grew up. Cause you can’t reattach balls.. There are hormone considerations. They ended up medical patients for life. And unhappy. I am woman. XX is why. I could have a hysterectomy for medical purposes or mastectomy and I would still be female because of XX. It’s body mortification. Why can’t the male who knows they are female just put on a dress and stay intact? If the physical does not matter to the identity?

And Scots.

Although this includes a 'surgically created' penis.

When I was about 15/16 at secondary school, my best friends boyfriend (at the time) told us that he was a wolf.

One evening when a group of us had been loitering in the park, Wolf-man (we nicknamed him this afterwards) started randomly convulsing, crouching down and started barking and howling at the moon. Genuinely believing he was going transform into a wolf like Jacob on Twilight.

He was a fucking weirdo. And thankfully my friend dumped him not long afterwards.

Sorry, completely irrelevant anecdote but this memory had come flooding back and I’m in hysterics.

Actually I have known several cats who toilet on the grass. Maybe they are identifying as dogs 😬

On a serious note, I am a teacher and lots of the kids tell me that furries exist but I’m not aware of any. However, there are children with gender dysmorphia in school and people identifying as cats and wolves trivialises their experiences and makes it more difficult to have a serious conversation about trans issues in school without ‘furries’ being dragged into it.

That’s useful to know - literally the only knowledge I have of furries is what the kids in school have told me, and they tell me that it’s people identifying as animals in the same way that trans people do. I don’t especially want to educate myself on furries if they’re fetishists but maybe that’s an aspect of sex and relationships education we need to cover so as to clearly differentiate it from trans issues. It’s really difficult to compete with internet culture 🥴

I'm sure you mean well but children with gender dysmorphia need qualified psychological treatment. Adults in schools are completely unqualified in promoting sex change to children. There should be minimal discussions about "trans issues" in schools outside of age appropriate discussions about protected characteristics, the human rights that all citizens have etc .
A school's only role is to ensure that gender questioning children are referred to the right agencies for qualified support and that's it. Not dabble in this dreadful experiment that is being carried out on children. The Cass Review has pointed out that socially transitioning children is not a neutral act.

This by a clinical psychologist is worth reading about the psychological damage that's being done to teenagers by pretending that they can change sex:

https://www.transgendertrend.com/teenager-says-theyre-transgender/

Surely a real wolf would not be allowed in school. So how is this person if they are a 'real' wolf.
To stay in school they would have to admit they are not. I'd be pushing this if my child was there!

Well, I live in Wales and we have specific guidance on what to teach children about relationships and sexuality in the classroom and are required to work with local authority and Welsh government on that provision. And yes it does include some discussion of trans, of course. I’m sure you also mean well but referring children to relevant authorities is not our role in the classroom.

It's a shame (but sadly not a surprise) to see the word "transphobia" on this thread. Unfortunately it's impossible to call out the risks of children identifying as the opposite sex, non-binary, furries, therians (or any other identity) without someone thinking this is transphobic.

I don't believe that everyone has a gender identity. However, I accept that many people do believe this and that some people who do will feel incredibly distressed that their perceived identity doesn't match their body. Anyone in this situation deserves evidence-based healthcare care to support them. I also don't believe in god, but I accept that many people do and that for them their faith impacts many aspects of their lives.
Perhaps I'm both transphobic and Christianphobic?

some of the vocabulary is reminiscent of when it used to be acceptable to think being gay was just a phase.

Some people ignorantly used to think, some still do, that being gay was a phase. Also, some people unfortunately just are homophobic.

There is a world of difference between a child starting to wonder if they might be gay and a child starting to wonder if they might be "in the wrong body" (e.g. transgender or therian/other-kin identity). Unfortunately all of it has been conflated and muddled together under LGBTQ+, making it very confusing for adolesents to navigate during the emotionally turbulent time of puberty.

unless you start doing extreme genetic testing on everyone, you can’t just rule that all trans women are men.

Another unfortunate conflation is when DSDs are brought in to the mix.
Everyone is either male or female (their sex) and DSDs are sex-specific.

It's impossible (not just an outlier) to have a womb and a penis, owing to the order in which reproductive organs are formed. Everyone starts with "bi-potential gonads". In males, the instruction (the SRY gene, normally on the Y chromosome) tells the body to form testes from these gonads - from this moment on, it's impossible to have a womb. The lack of this instruction (the lack of an SRY gene) tells the body to form ovaries from these gonads - from this moment on, it's impossible to have a penis. Reproductive organs always form in the same order: testes or ovaries first, then the internal "plumbing" (womb etc or prostate etc) until finally the external features (vulva/clitoris etc or scrotum/penis).

Although all DSDs are rare, one of the more common in males is "46 XY 5-ARD". In this DSD, the penis and scrotum don't form until puberty. Everything else is formed inside as normal but the external genetalia look "female" at birth. When they get to puberty, boys with 46 XY 5-ARD will find that their body finally reacts to the SRY gene: their voices will drop, they will grow a penis and (most of the time) their testicles will drop outside the body. They are no different to any other male at this point, with male strength and speed etc - although many will have grown up believing themselves to be female, which must be very confusing and distressing to go through. From what was written in the press, it sounds like the two Olympic boxers at the heart of this year's controversy had this condition. Sometimes the testes might stay inside e.g. the runner Caster Semenya talks about having internal testes.

This is a brilliant, compassionately written article about 46 XY 5-ARD by Michael Moseley a few years ago:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34290981

However, as has been said by PPs, all transwomen are males i.e. they have been born with male body parts, male strength and speed etc. Some may end up removing body parts but, according to Stonewall, most retain their penis and testicles. It's impossible to be a transwoman unless you are a male.

In my day at secondary school anyone identifying as a wolf, furry or whatever would have had the absolute piss ripped out of them. There is no way fellow pupils would have gone along with something so ridiculous without calling out such idiotic behaviour. I can't believe that any teachers can really think that this is ok to allow in schools- are kids now in charge of the adults?

Because its genetically impossible to be another species but there are Intersex people. However, chances are a % of cases (no idea of stats) are MH like these furries. Also societal expectations so feeling you don't belong as "girls wear this" or "boys don't enjoy that".

'Intersex' people are not trans. You are conflating two totally different things.

We should be doing everything we can to challenge societal expectations, rather than indicate there is something wrong with children if they dont align with them.

I completely understand that teachers are caught between a rock and a hard place if they have government guidance / school leadership that pushes selling an ideology to children over the need to safeguard them.
All schools have the responsibility to refer children for specialist support if they have mental health challenges. Teachers don't dabble in counselling or therapy for children with eating disorders, self harming or suicidal ideation - it's professionally dangerous as we lack the qualifications to do this and could do actual harm. An individual class teacher wouldn't make that referral but the pastoral system is set up to do this.

I understand that teachers are being told to do this but we need to start pushing back. Cass has made it clear that socially transitioning children is potentially dangerous and not the role of a school.

If a child in a school has genuine gender dysphoria I would really hope that this child is under the care of a mental health professional.