Child identifies as a wolf ... WTF?

[Portakalkedi]

Just on Radio 4 now, discussing a child in secondary school who identifies as a wolf, and the school is going along with this. AIBU to think the world (or at least the UK) has gone mad? If said child is living in the woods, catching its own prey etc etc, howling and running with other wolves, which I doubt, then why the hell is anyone going along with it? They are also saying that some others identify as dogs or cats etc. And here was me thinking men 'identifying' as women was bad.

I get your point but I'm not remotely offended by gay people, trans people or drag queens. I do, however, think that children identifying as animals and there being an expectation that schools have to cater to this is problematic.

I would not want to see a naked person with a penis at the age of 16 in a space expecting me to disrobe as well.

All 'intersex' people are either male or female though. It is more accurately described as a difference of sexual development. The biological classifications of male and female have been fundamental to mammalian existence for millennia. It absolutely is a reliable classifier.

Sarah Baker

Yes they are, but if someone with XX chromosomes and a womb has a penis, which has happened, are they automatically a man?

Feed the child dog food at lunchtime and see if it re-identifies as a human being within 5 seconds.

But it hasn't
Mammal biology has been set for millions of years

Yes it has…

https://helloclue.com/articles/culture/what-puberty-is-like-as-an-intersex-person

Having a womb and a penis would make someone an EXTREME outlier. We are talking about the most edge of edge examples, which are broadly speaking totally irrelevant as the vast, vast majority of those identifying as transwomen are unambiguous biological males.

The litmus test though is gametes. Females have systems set up to produce large gametes, males small gametes. The example you've posited is (as I say) ridiculously rare but this person has no capacity to produce large gametes and as such, their sex is male, is not in question, despite having a DSD

There is a very good reason children are not allowed to drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes, drive, vote etc… its lunacy to indulge this.

Finally saw on of these kids today. Looked like a homemade fox mask on her head and a fox tail hanging out back of her trousers.

Of course transwomen are men, it's not possible to be a transwoman unless you're a man.

An estimated 2% of the population has a DSD. So yes while some trans women are biologically male, others may have DSD and unless you start doing extreme genetic testing on everyone, you can’t just rule that all trans women are men.
People on this thread are likening kids believing they’re animals (which is biologically impossible) with being trans and belittling trans people at the same time. Transgender people are over 4 times likely to be assaulted, including sexually.
Do I think someone proclaiming to identify as a woman means they should automatically be granted access to single-sex space - no. But I think there is a lot of transphobia on this thread and some of the vocabulary is reminiscent of when it used to be acceptable to think being gay was just a phase. We need to find a way to balance the needs and safety of everyone in a society and not just decide that the safety of some people who are ‘different to the norm’ isn’t as important.

Okay.

How do you and I know if somebody who enters a women's only space has had their penis cut off, or if they're a man dressing up as a woman for potentially nefarious purposes?

You really do, under English law.

None of us think trans people's safety isn't important.

We just don't think women's safety (and rights) should come second to anybody else's.

I want trans people to be safe, happy and well. I don't want that to be at the expense of women's spaces, safety, sports, places and rights. I would support trans categories in sports, 3rd space bathrooms, and so on. The trouble is that trans rights campaigners don't on the whole want that. They want access to women's things, and they don't want conversations to be allowed about if that's reasonable and fair on women.

A lad did this at my sons school. Even changed his name and everything. Hes still the same at college.

Can't believe I just read a bunch of adults tearing into children. Someone actually referred to children as "it" in the most dehumanising way.

How come when a child (or adult) has behaviour that signals a problem, people attack and ridicule them for it, saying "they're just doing it for attention" and "clearly they need help".

Yes, they do - that's the point? They're asking for help indirectly, so help them get help.

I don't understand or think all this therian stuff is good either and I'd rightly be concerned if it was my kid. But people like you are the reasons kids who need help and are struggling end up struggling more, because you pass your judgemental, bullying attitude on to your own child who ends up being the bully in school. And likely you blame the child who needs help, telling them they deserve it and "brought it on themselves" instead of having basic empathy.

Absolutely disgusting behaviour. Grow up. Set an example for these kids struggling and your own.

That is not how dressing rooms are in the U.S. There are no cubicles. There are lockers all around the room on the walls and you undress in front of everyone.

In the U.S. high school locker rooms don’t have private spaces like cubbies. It’s lockers against the four walls and people in full of each other changing. What about a roommate. You are free to have a born male in sharing your female bedroom cause they are female inside. Now imagine there is a shared bathroom on the floor but the bedroom you will have to change in front of and sleep before transition.

But I’m not in the US, I’m in Scotland where the supposed wolf child is. They have unisex toilets here and they’re all cubicles, one of the late bars has had them for about 15 years, we were all shocked at first but it became normal and I’ve never heard of anyone being raped or assaulted in them. If there’s no cubicles then it’s different but there’s no way I would go to uni and pay to share a dorm to be randomly assigned with anyone, man or woman. Guess I’ll add that to the reasons I’m glad I wasn’t born in the US.

That’s the campaigners though, the trans people I know just want to be safe and not be othered. They feel safer in a woman’s toilet than a man’s but actually most I know prefer to use a disabled toilet and not have to come into contact with anyone that’s going to judge them. Men who are inclined to rape will do so, using whatever opportunity they have and a space being designated as female won’t stop them.

An estimated 2% of the population has a DSD

This is not true.

So yes while some trans women are biologically male, others may have DSD and unless you start doing extreme genetic testing on everyone, you can’t just rule that all trans women are men.

All transwomen are men. HTH.

The issue is all over the west though. We have had news reports of attempted or actual rape of children in the girls washroom where a man/woman was in there claiming to be female. This was over 5 years ago. I had the opposite problem as a boy mom. What age could he go in alone that I would not have to worry about it? Just in general not the trans thing. They are all so exposed with the open urinals. He is a vulnerable child as well. Even in early teens he would first go see if empty besides him and then go and use a stall. He didn’t like flushing sounds to come unexpected from other stalls so I got lucky he could be more cautious. A number of places started putting in family bathrooms about 15 years ago, then they renamed them gender neutral. Meant originally for mom and stroller with a couple of kids enough room for her to manage. Or meant for dad or like me with a son. Anyone can use them. But many places still one or the other. But then I walked into one the other day and urine on floor and the rim and the seat up. Ick. You know you won’t find such things in a government building in China, or a shopping center in Gaza in 2021. Someone wants the west beating themselves up over craziness.

I've voted YABU
For swallowing any old bollocks you read.