Child identifies as a wolf ... WTF?

[Portakalkedi]

Just on Radio 4 now, discussing a child in secondary school who identifies as a wolf, and the school is going along with this. AIBU to think the world (or at least the UK) has gone mad? If said child is living in the woods, catching its own prey etc etc, howling and running with other wolves, which I doubt, then why the hell is anyone going along with it? They are also saying that some others identify as dogs or cats etc. And here was me thinking men 'identifying' as women was bad.

Those saying that this would not be tolerated by teachers, I disagree (and I am a former teacher). If they wish to keep their jobs and pensions, then sadly I believe they would not have much choice except to bow to the pressure to accept this, just as they do re 'trans' children.

Did you actually listen to the discussion on Radio 4?

There are clearly furries in society.

There are transsexuals (i.e. those who have had an operation to remove their penis and testicles, plus the creation of a "neo-vagina") and there are transvestites (also known as autogynophiles) who do not have operations, so retain their penis and testicles.

Furries, transsexuals and transvestites are all predicated on the same thing: that it's possible to have a soul, separate from the body that is of a different species/sex to the body.

Of all the above, some will be true believers and some will say that they believe it, in order to gain access to things that they wouldn't otherwise. Unfortunately, those that feign a belief are often very good at making it look like they genuinely hold that belief e.g. they talk about having known they were [a girl] since they were young. Perhaps also they might share stories of having stolen or borrowed their mum's or sister's underwear.

Society seems to find it easier to say that the furry stuff is "nonsense" but more difficult re males who identify in to women's sports or (like Isla Bryson, who is one of many), women's prisons.

This is a really interesting article written by a self-declared autogynophile. He also looks at how transsexualism fits in - obviously that is very different, as you say:

https://archive.is/2pQIq

Pleased this thread is still going and that all the "it's a culture war, fake facts" etc posters are posting. Because so many of these discussion are shut down and parents coerced / bullied into pandering to all this with their children instead of saying No.

If you're a parent and this is happening in your child's school (and hopefully it's a tiny minority of schools who've been persuaded that this nonsense is OK) then please raise merry hell. Complain and complain again until it's stopped.

Schools are places where children learn in a safe and ordered environment. Children should not be exposed to delusions, fantasies and ideologies rooted in sexual fetishes.

Hmm. I think it's one thing for a primary aged student to play around with this idea, wear cat ears etc, but when they're a teen with access to the internet I would shut it down immediately.

I am a well known digital artist, a ridiculous portion of my income comes from Furries (i know...). Teenagers should absolutely 100% not be involved with this community. Without going into detail it is extremely depraved. I would be reporting any teen to a safeguarding lead if they mentioned being a furry.

You think someone's sense of identity should be solely confined to their age group? So no straight, gay, Christian, Welsh, Swiftie, skater. Nothing other than just "teenager". Yeah, good luck with that.

Framing what I wrote as an attempt to coerce anyone to do anything is missing the point so massively I'm somewhat at a loss. You can believe me about the tactics and impact of current widescale disinformation programmes, or you can stick your head under your pillow and pretend it's not happening. Makes no difference to me either way.

But the cat doesn't know that!!

Thankfully we don't have anywhere near the same binary (no pun intended) political choices as they do in the US.

If you want to say no to men identifying in to women's sports in the US, or to children being given irreversible medication and/or surgery to support their perceived gender identity, you have to pick Trump. Which also means picking a largely homophobic agenda (obviously LGB involves same sex attraction, not identifying as a different sex), anti-abortion and pro-guns.

As a liberally-minded, LGB supporting, pro-choice and anti-gun person, I would be stuck in an impossible situation. Trump seems like a nutter (e.g. suggesting people could drink bleach to get rid of covid) and personally, I prefer my politicians not to be up in court.
As for Kamala Harris, see above re the impact of gender identity belief, particularly on vulnerable children and young adults.

Not quite sure that you're responding to the post I've written or the post you think in your head I've written? No matter.

I responded to you saying that "The point is to encourage exactly the kind of fear and outrage being seen in this thread. It's aim isn't to "other" the furries etc, it's to "other" the people and groups who are rumoured to be supporting and encouraging the furries etc."

Safeguarding children is every responsible adults responsibility. It's not "othering" to raise concerns about therians with roots in an adult sexual fetish being picked up by teenagers.

People can choose to ignore safeguarding risks to children - that's up to them. But women on Mumsnet are pretty keen on ensuring that our children are safe and if there's a legitimate risk (which this is), then we're right to discuss it..

Yup, you're still missing the point. Unfortunately I don't have the crayons to draw it out for you in a clear enough way that you can see over your rapidly jerking knee so I'll leave you to it.

YABU for falling for this nonsense.

😂
You sound nice.

There should not be a single teenager in any UK school identifying as anything other than a teenager. That's the whole point.

Arguably, there shouldn't be any teenagers identifying as teenagers either. People either are teenagers or they aren't.
I don't identify as a woman (despite the fact that I am one). I don't identify as anything.

I might feel I can identify with someone's particular situation i.e. I can empathise with how they might feel about a particular experience, having experienced it myself in what might be a similar way. For example, I can identify with the way teenagers might feel very confused about their place in the world. We all went through it and it seems to be even tougher now, particularly with the pressure that society seems to pile on them identify as x, y or z.

Likewise, I don't identify as straight/heterosexual or as middle-aged. I just am these things. No "identitying as" required.

Yep. Your missing the point that everything certain people don’t like is a culture war.

You need to listen to the fact check in the episode. What they know is a pupil at a school in Scotland was informally recognised by one member as a furry. This is not the same as "children identifying as animals in schools".

The Daily Mail got this through an FOI request, not because the school disclosed it. My hunch is it was a fishing exercise to all schools to find "evidence".

The Daily Mail also introduced the term "species dysphoria".

It's like someone trawling to find evidence of Haitians eating pets. One child in Scotland being referred to informally as a wolf by one member of staff is not a sign of anything.

Just Daily Mail/GB news click bait ridiculousness.

But it's not made up?
There was literally a thread on here recently with several parents coming on defending their children's rights to identify as whatever animal.

Do you think everyone on the Internet is who they say they are?

I caught some of that programme - it was the bit debunking all social media faux outraged posts about furries in schools. There've been a few programmes about it recently. The 'litter box in classrooms' came about because schools in America were putting buckets with stuff like cat litter in classrooms because they have to be prepared to lockdown classrooms and shelter in place if there's a shooter. It's for the kids to go to the loo if needed in that situation.

There was also a recent very sensible analysis in, I think, The Guardian. It's just another thing far right, anti woke crowd want whip up a drama about on social media and when people look for evidence (not of the my sister's friend's hairdresser said on Facebook type) it is, surprise, surprise,not there.

I know. It's interesting that it's when risk to children is exposed that so many deniers appear. Almost as if they want people to stop questioning and looking.

All the abuse cases - Saville, Couzens, Edwards & countless others had whistleblowers who were silenced, marginalised, threatened or too scared to speak out. This is a harmful to children ideology that's operating in plain sight. Even if it's one child in one school (and we know it's many more than that) all children are entitled to be protected.

No of course not but people got very heated on the thread defending children's rights to be whoever and now we're told (probably by the same posters who were shouting people down on that thread) that it's all made up & not happening. 🤷‍♂️

Quite! 🤦‍♀️

wveryone who doesn’t agree with me is lying. Everyone who doesn’t agree with me is a Russian bot. Everyone who doesn’t agree with me is right-wing. Everyone who doesn’t agree with me is Hitler. It’s so obvious what’s going on

And one more time WE ALL KNOW THE LITTER TRAY THING IS FAKE NEWS.

I bet it can tell by the lovely clean toilets.

I don't think it matters whether this case is fake news or not (FWIW I believe it to be true). This is absolutely happening (as witnessed by many including my neighbour mentioned above) and it is being pandered to. By adults who should know fucking better.

It's not 'Be Kind' to agree with a small child who tells you they identify as a hedgehog - it's confusing and potentially dangerous. You like hedgehogs? Great. You want to dress as a hedgehog? Great. You think you are a hedgehog? Really? I promise you are not a hedgehog, you are a human.

FFS

This ⬆️

My only small caveat is that one person's nonsense is another's true belief. Some people really do believe that it's possible to have a gender identity that differs from their sex (including furry identities), just as some people really do believe that it's possible for a baby to be born without any sperm having been involved (the immaculate conception of Jesus).

Neither of these beliefs should be taught as facts in secular schools.

Sadly, some of the believers get very angry at those of us who refuse to have the belief pushed on to us e.g. males declaring that they have a female gender identity and insisting that they compete in women's sports (even if many women in that sport don't share their belief). Thankfully this doesn't tend to apply to the average Christian but obviously there are some extremes there too.
By contrast, there are a lot of gender identity believers who get angry.... some also get patronising and start talking about simplifying things with crayons.

Fortunately I can happily represent my own lack of belief (that we all have a gender identity) with crayons, should the need arise. A crayon war sounds much more fun than a culture war too. En garde! 🖍️