What's happened to young people? Can parents give me insight.

[EveningSpread]

I work in Higher Education, and I'm increasingly worried about young people.

So far this year, I've encountered more students than usual who:

• say they are unable to attend classes due to anxiety
• who are afraid of being in classes
• who won't speak when spoken to by staff or other students
• who say they find getting on a bus and getting to class to overwhelming
• who find the thought of doing their work so stressful that they can't cope
• who don't come to classes due to family parties / their hamster dying / waking up late (to name the reasons I've had just this morning) and expect you to fix what they've missed - in other words, who seem totally immature and unprepared for life (a different problem to the other things above, perhaps)

Obviously we express sympathy, reassure, and explain that they need to access the help that will enable them to function - to enjoy life, succeed on their degree, and get a job afterwards. (So the wellbeing services, and their GP.) Often the reassurance really helps. But equally a lot of these students don't cope at University. I'm sure this problem is exacerbated by the fact that I work in an institution that attracts students from postcodes with multiple indices of deprivation.

Part of me hopes that mental health issues are sometimes exaggerated or even an excuse, as an increasingly large percentage of my students seem essentially afraid to leave the house -- which would be much worse than them just trying it on/being a bit lazy! It's great that we have a language to talk about mental health now, but it's hard to know how/when to tell people that (a) they are responsible for improving their own mental health so they can function in the world, and (b) experiencing some mild discomfort and difficulty, such as being nervous around new people, is normal and crucial to development.

But I'm left wondering: how are parents coping with their young people if these are the miserable lives they're living? If they're not going to classes, are scared to leave the house, and can't function?

So AIBU, or is this problem getting worse? What can parents of roughly 16-20 year olds tell me? Are we still dealing with the legacies of COVID? What's the word on the street among young people about mental health these days?

curate their friendships (and falling outs)
100%
Parents mostly make falling outs worse.

There was post on here the other week asking if her child or the flatmate was right in an argument about dishes in the sink. She thought one, her husband the other. I mean, what the actual…? I was agog. Imagine even telling your parents about this and then them having an opinion and then bickering between themselves about it and then coming here to ask which of these two adults sharing a flat was right. I just can’t…astonishing.

If I ruled the world ( ) a gap year would be compulsory for ALL pupils after their A Levels. Time to decompress, get off the educational & examination treadmill, and to do some meaningful work in service of general society.

No one could buy their way out of it, and there would be deliberate mixing up of classes, ethnicities and regional experiences (so Londoners would go to Northumbria etc etc). They'd get board & lodging and a small allowance, and do stuff like work in childcare, land reclamation, caring for national parks, elderly care - all sorts of things. With an emphasis on thinking beyond themselves, and caring for the environment - get outside!

It would also help to develop a post-qualifications university application process, for those young people who want to go to university. Not just because they think they should (middle class finishing school) but because it's what they want to do more than anything else.

Oh, if only ...

MurdoMunro · Today 10:47
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Do you think that isolation is not just about what happened during the covid lockdowns? It’s how we closet away children and young people, wrap them in stifling protective blankets, curate their friendships (and falling outs), model to them that other people can’t be trusted. ‘Stay home, stay safe’ has been a thing for a long time before Covid came along and it’s a date of mind not just a physical lockdown”

To a lesser degree, yes. Though Covid was exceptional. Our youngest didn’t see anyone but immediate family for 16 months (during sixth form years) because of vulnerability in our home. That’s going to mess with anyone’s head.

The press has a lot to answer for this - I think it's true that the world is safer in terms of paediphiles, sex attackers, dangerous driving, etc than it used to be but we perceive it to be more dangerous because of how individual cases are reported to give the impression that bad things happen more often.

When you think of it, it makes sense that health and safety, mental health treatment, sex offenders registers etc will have made some improvement, but our appetite for risk is lower.

I had a friend who was a child in the 30s. I remember her saying kids went around the park in gangs - they knew who were dodgy old men and they knew the places to avoid and that there was safety in numbers. That's how they stayed safe. Kind of horrible to think of it but the risk was always there.

Equally we have to honour the reality of their anxiety - young people growing up 30 - 70 years ago didn't have anywhere near as much to deal with in terms of precarity, insecurity, poor prospects, global disaster

Really???

In my experience (late baby boomer), we grew up with civil defence routines about what we'd do in the case of a nuclear strike. We had skyjacking of aeroplanes. There was conscription (in USA, and Australia, and New Zealand, where I lived for part of my childhood) of ALL men at 18 into the army, with the likelihood of being sent to Vietnam.

Women had to resign jobs on pregnancy. Their posts in the civil service, teaching & nursing were made non-permanent on marriage. No equal pay. I was told at school that only certain kinds of education & jobs were appropriate for young girls & women.

Rape in marriage was not illegal. Male homosexuality was illegal.

My parents both lost parents in WWII; an in-law's father escaped Dachau.

Every generation has its challenges. It's how we meet those challenges.

And I can tell you from all the stuff I was taught about nuclear war, and that my father learned from volunteering with the Civil Defence unit in our city (yes, these were everywhere & were about defence in the Cold War & nuclear war), if there's a nuclear war, you want to be evaporated at the centre of the strike (ie within about 2 kilometres).

You want to become a shadow, such as those we saw from Hiroshima & Nagasaki - because surviving a first strike would be far, far worse than dying in it.

Equally we have to honour the reality of their anxiety - young people growing up 30 - 70 years ago didn't have anywhere near as much to deal with in terms of precarity, insecurity, poor prospects, global disaster

😂

Surely satire?

You are kidding right?

Living through the Cold War was terrifying. Being told there was no point in doing our exams as we’d be dead in a few years.

Cost of living in the 1970’s was also terrible. Plus we had no power either.

Indeed, I agree with you, hence why I'm laughing at a comment about people not having any of this decades ago and assuming it's sarcasm or satire.

Becoming an adult is a bit like young childhood. It needs to be properly paced, needs a correct level of “risk” that allows a thread of making own decisions but in a not too risky environment. Teenagers need the “right from wrong” discussions, the correct understanding of the consequences of making choices, and the possible outcomes. Having goals and rewards that are earned rather than given to appease, being able to develop their own personalities rather than following a fad or latest craze.

Too many children don’t sound like they have the basics of life such as warmth, shelter, good food. Stability and love, safety. Others are wrapped deeply in cotton wool, indulged at every moment with expensive presents, stupidly expensive one up man ship spending to impress other adults or fulfill their parents own tick lists. Passing wads of cash doled out to fill the lack of time, love, affection young people really need. Trying to find their own personality, develop self worth, coping with simple life tasks becomes a frightening concept if it all comes too fast without guidance and help. It’s survive as best you can, not always the right side of society’s laws, or it’s curl up and die because very simple things get blown out of all proportion. And then it’s all recycled again in the next generation.

Are you in Scotland OP? Just from the way you have worded things.
I also teach secondary in Scotland. I think maybe you are seeing the true impact of covid now? The kids who would have been in S3 (so pre exams) when covid hit and never really knew how to sit exams prior to covid. I don't fully understand it all but it seems to have affected kids worse than we would think. Perhaps increased screen time during that period is one factor.

I know, my comment was to the poster who you replied to.

Pff! Not much to be sacred of in the 70’s and 80’s was there? 😂

Cost of living crisis, power cuts. Schools closed, Northern Ireland, Invasion of Afghanistan, Cold War, Reagan, Thatcher, American missiles on UK soil, unemployment, sky high interest rate, no help with childcare/ no childcare, no equalities act, women barred from mortgages and company pension schemes.

Yeah it felt really safe and secure.

Don’t forget AIDS, bloody Yorkshire Ripper👍

Coping with simple life tasks becomes a frightening concept if it all comes too fast without guidance and help.

This is because primary school aged dc are not allowed to do anything independently away from supervising adults. This issue is less apparent in families where both parents work and at least one parent is from abroad. The mollycoddling, wrapping in cotton wool is a US / British parenting style, it's not as bad elsewhere. Here, 10 year old dc are not allowed to walk to the shops by themselves or briefly look after their younger sibling; MN gets into collective huff if we leave our dc at home for 60 minutes to pop to the shops when they're 8 or 9. 8 is pretty mature to be left alone for 30-60 minutes unless perhaps they have SN.

My dc was offered school counselling in year 2 when her friends turned on her and were mean. I declined the offer politely and encouraged dc to speak up and walk away when her frenemies were giving her a hard time. Why should dc feel like there is something wrong with her, that she is feeble and needs special support from a mental health practitioner because she has a normal human reaction to being treated unkindly? I taught her to speak up and walk away to find others to play with. One of the frenemies took up the offer of school mental health support and was still causing huge drama years later in secondary school. It's insane for schools to offer mental health support for playground pickles. They are a normal part of a child's development. It's not as if they offered social interaction strategies to resolve friction and conflict, no, they were taken out of class for 30 minute a week, colouring in and watching YouTube videos about self care (in year 2) and given a sweet at the end. I found this rather disturbing. Such young minds, this simply promotes learned helplessness.

So how do we counter this as parents? Even if you don't allow access to SM until 16, they will hear about it at school from their friends or access it once they do have a smart phone. What are the things parents can do to ground children and teens in reality.

The one thing my friends with confident, well-adjusted, sociable children of various ages (some still young, some in their 20s) all seem to do is eat together — and they all eat the same thing, no cooking separate meals to suit each individual's preference. They learn social skills, they learn to talk and listen, they develop humour, they hear adults talking about adult life and the issues that go on in the office or among adult friends. They are also pretty good at saying no and meaning it. We have new neighbours up the road who have told everyone that they never say no to their children and they don't want to hear anyone else saying it.

But their main reason was the view that the future is just crap for them and that makes them anxious and left wondering about the point of it all. They said everyone keeps saying how rubbish everything is so it feels hopeless - climate change, cost of living, hard to get a good job, will never afford a house, have to work forever etc

I'd agree.

Just saw a film critic on-line bemoaning the lack of hero's or hero journeys in modern films put down to poorer writing skills they can't conceive good person or more ambiguous person doing right thing of being interesting. They thought view this lack was impacting wider society view of itself. I think these stories are still out there just harder to find.

The dystopian novels aimed at YA - they've always been there I read many but they formed a smaller part of my reading whole and weren't as pushed by school there were just around.

Seen round children on here it's pushed never been a worse world - some sort of perfect time myth making going on. My grandparents were born into Edwardian slums, my Dad was born in second world war with bombs dropping in his town - rest of our parents were born okay poor to absolute poverty in 50s - and DH and I grew up in different parts of midlands in late 70s and 80 undergoing industrial decline money worries constant background noise. Though upturn as teens in 90s was welcome we were already aware of house price inflation which did impact on us and finding work in 20s not easy. I do worry about DC in future - but my parents generation many had to emigrate to find work or make hard choices so I don't think they are worse off.

Positive changes that help climate/population - often not covered and if are there always a negative slant at end.

Exam pressure was a thing for me in 90s - though I though DC school last night career lady was ridiculously negative about those not getting results they expected - there are other avenues which may take longer but can be found. My Dad doing OU in my childhood was I think a prime example of that.

There's a lot of negativity being pushed. I suspect it's not the cause of some many mental health problems - but I strongly suspect it doesn't help.

This is caused by:

Living their lives online and being able to carry out almost all interactions (admin, bookings etc) online without having to speak to a human being face-to-face or even on the phone. Obviously hugely exacerbated by Covid.

Their parents having given them too much unrestricted access and freedom online and not enough freedom in the outside world.

Parents micromanaging their friendships and making them afraid of other people.

Schools being on one hand quite hostile and stressful places, but on the other hand overly pandering to NT students' minor anxieties and enabling them to withdraw from things they find mildly uncomfortable. I'm a secondary school teacher btw.

Interesting, thanks for your response. Agree with a lot of what you say.

I think the whole concept of "making memories" has a lot to answer for, too. Memories make themselves. You can't curate life to that extent. It leads to such an unrealistic view of the world which makes it really hard to cope with disappointment, boredom, discomfort and all those other things which are part and parcel of life - and which can lead to growth.

I agree with this. My daughter (14) has struggled with anxiety since the lockdowns. She’s an only child and desperately missed her friends during the lockdowns. She’d just started at a middle school, in year 5, when it happened and she struggled. Then in year 9 she moved to high school and was miserable. It’s a horrible school with bad teaching and unsympathetic teachers. All the focus was on attendance and uniforms - detention for putting your hand in your blazer pocket, detention for taking your blazer off, no toilet visits allowed between break times but not enough toilets available for everyone to go then. She frequently came home having needed since the morning. Even kids with medical passes weren’t allowed out. We decided enough was enough and moved her to another school and the difference is incredible. She’s happy, thriving, getting good grades and isn’t anxious about anything for the first time in 4 years. The school is a half hour drive away and on occasion we’ve been really stuck behind a tractor (winding country roads) and she was quite happy for me to phone ahead and say she’d be late, whereas before she’d have been in a real panic - because her old school apparently just told people they should have left earlier. We leave the same time every day building in time for slow vehicles and have never actually been late, not even that time - but her new school is sensible about it and accepts that you can be on time every single day and something happened as a one off on the roads without saying you should have left earlier. We got stuck.for an hour coming.home last week due to an accident! You can’t control these things. Her new school is also lenient about uniform as long as it’s a black jumper and trousers or skirt, white shirt and school tie. No specific PE kit. When she was unwell last week they said they hoped she was better soon and they’d see her when she was ready to be back. Her last school used to hound us. She missed an important test and I emailed reception and had a reply from her head of year saying not to worry, she could do it when she was back and when she was feeling up to it, not the first day back.

I fully believe schools make a huge difference to it all, having seen the changes in my daughter. Her new one treats them as individuals, and as people rather than robot, and when I was speaking to the head just in passing and mentioned forgetting to bring in some medication I was meant to leave for DD, she said she’s a mum herself and it’s really hard to keep on top of remembering everything. They treat people as actual human beings.

I can only speak for my DC who are at uni.
One went in Covid times and it was a shitshow - they changed course and are in their final year. They are most likely adhd as they’ve had a thorough DSA assessment - although not been fully medically diagnosed. They have had anxiety for years, but the lockdown made it much worse. Thankfully w cope and have a full uni life but they have DSA mentor (was uni mentor but the dept was overwhelmed so they encouraged DSA), they can get an extension automatically (they have to ask but it’s given) and a time out pass.
They are in a b small uni which suits. You would have no idea they had issues if you met them.
The youngest is in year 2 of uni - deferred cos of bad MH after covid but still struggles, also has DSA and similar issues to eldest. Prob on the spectrum, very high achieving. Got a first last year in a tough degree despite MH being v fragile.
All my friends w kids a similar age have at least one who struggles now with MH difficulties be it anxiety or depression.

Making memories = insta fodder, no?

People have forgotten the difference between photos and lived experience

I agree. Every summer, there’s a post on mn from a mum thinking she’s failing if she spends her summer not going on trips to the zoo, castle, etc, but playing in the garden, cooking etc.

Just thinking about a holiday we had when dc were kids. One of the strongest memories was a seagull pinching my fish as we sat on the pier eating fish and chips. Not one of the curated activities that was planned.

It's a vicious circle where parents worry about child anxiety, that piles pressure on schools and teachers to take responsibility for complex problems, teachers get stressed, which is passed on to pupils...

We need to have a basic rethink about what we expect from kids, what opportunities they get and what a normal childhood looks like. What is enough, in terms of grades, work hours, social hours etc