What's happened to young people? Can parents give me insight.

[EveningSpread]

I work in Higher Education, and I'm increasingly worried about young people.

So far this year, I've encountered more students than usual who:

• say they are unable to attend classes due to anxiety
• who are afraid of being in classes
• who won't speak when spoken to by staff or other students
• who say they find getting on a bus and getting to class to overwhelming
• who find the thought of doing their work so stressful that they can't cope
• who don't come to classes due to family parties / their hamster dying / waking up late (to name the reasons I've had just this morning) and expect you to fix what they've missed - in other words, who seem totally immature and unprepared for life (a different problem to the other things above, perhaps)

Obviously we express sympathy, reassure, and explain that they need to access the help that will enable them to function - to enjoy life, succeed on their degree, and get a job afterwards. (So the wellbeing services, and their GP.) Often the reassurance really helps. But equally a lot of these students don't cope at University. I'm sure this problem is exacerbated by the fact that I work in an institution that attracts students from postcodes with multiple indices of deprivation.

Part of me hopes that mental health issues are sometimes exaggerated or even an excuse, as an increasingly large percentage of my students seem essentially afraid to leave the house -- which would be much worse than them just trying it on/being a bit lazy! It's great that we have a language to talk about mental health now, but it's hard to know how/when to tell people that (a) they are responsible for improving their own mental health so they can function in the world, and (b) experiencing some mild discomfort and difficulty, such as being nervous around new people, is normal and crucial to development.

But I'm left wondering: how are parents coping with their young people if these are the miserable lives they're living? If they're not going to classes, are scared to leave the house, and can't function?

So AIBU, or is this problem getting worse? What can parents of roughly 16-20 year olds tell me? Are we still dealing with the legacies of COVID? What's the word on the street among young people about mental health these days?

My own elder two children are pretty resilient and determined to get to where they want in life, and are content to put the effort in to achieve it. My youngest was the most affected by Covid, and I'm not sure would put the same effort in (in spite of continuing with a PT job alongside uni that he doesn't enjoy for 2 years, so maybe all is not lost!!

Ah the old covid excuse. I live in a European country and school was shut for more than a year and no one mentions covid now. Its just an excuse for bad behaviour.
The difference is freedom. Where I live kids aged 9 go to school alone...play out alone. I often read on here people won't let their kids go the corner shop. How are they going to gain confidence. Also the kids go away on camps in summer often 2 weeks with out parents...a foreign idea here.

Exactly - the pp who said her son was traumatised by all the death on the news?! Why was he being exposed to it with seemingly no context?

My kids hated being stuck at home but were not remotely afraid of Covid - I assume because neither was I and so they didn't have my anxiety to feed off. And their dad is diabetic so we as a family were not without risk, we just were rational about it.

The most anxious teens I know have equally anxious parents, wonder where it comes from in the first place.....

Yes.

Covid was disastrous for children of all ages, at different, crucial developmental times. Its legacy on young people cannot by overlooked or minimised and of course it will affect these people throughout their lives.

This sounds like my secondary school experience thirty years ago. I remember writing 200 lines because I forgot a textbook. Not allowed inside at breaks even in winter. It was not fun. I didn’t end up with anxiety though…why would kids of today suffer more from this (and not suggesting it’s ok, just not new).

I agree, a hamster is not a toy - it's a loved pet. Many children's first responsibility.

Whilst I am sure lockdown didn't help some kids...

I think the issues started way before that...

When was the last time kids played out, unsupervised, without phones, having to make decisions and resolve problems or find a suitable adult to do so?

When was the last time that kids under 10 were sent on useful errands for their parents?

We've taken away those early freedoms where you learn how to interact with others, negotiate, plan, discuss, decide, cope...

We've taken away the expectations that children can do useful tasks/jobs around the house and further afield.

The only places they socialise with others is school which is a really high pressure environment (and always was but is even more so now) or highly organised, controlled clubs/after school activities) and not great for actually learning how to get along, achieve things because theres an adult telling them what to do at every turn.

Growing up in the 80s certainly wasn't perfect, but most of us mixed with a variety of kids AND adults, and were far more independent, far younger, and school or extra curricular activities were an add on to that social experience, not the ONLY social experience.

The flip side of those useful learning experiences is that many of us grew up determined we would not be as neglectful and harsh as our 70s/80s parents... we'd actually LISTEN to kids and give them a break and hear how they felt...

And thats gone a smidgen too far the other way... and the combination means we now have utterly useless young people scared of their shadows who all want to be fucking cats or hide under their duvets until they're 35.

Not to the same extent - for example countries like Denmark and the Netherlands prioritise outdoor time for their kids, Dutch kids cycle to school etc. So I think they probably have less screen time and I think they had more sensible approaches to lockdowns. And of course still have the benefits of EU membership.

But they still have the pressures of social media and global pressures.

I have to agree with this. Secondary school was absolutely feral in the 80s. No pastoral care, no well-being teams and some shocking behaviour from pupils. I remember being terrified to use the toilets because of big gangs of girls smoking who would kick the cubicle door in while you were sitting on the loo 😳

The UK was particularly badly prepared. Again, civil contingencies planning has been something that's been steadily scaled back and defunded. It was in a bad way even before austerity.

If you want to see a properly organised civil contingency organisation, look at THW in Germany, the resources and equipment they have, the training that they do.

I think it depends where your child was at the time.

My older two were relatively unscathed with the eldest missing out on a few weeks of teacher training, and the 2nd a few weeks of her final year in uni. Youngest missed out on doing GCSEs and AS levels. Was always let down by exam technique and hadn't ever done public exams by the time of A levels.

Elder two were more sociable (suppose that could partly be a girl/boy thing). Those years 16-18 should have been a time of fun and parties and outings! Still socialises with friends, but online. I hear the gales of laughter and tell myself at least it's some human interaction, but they seldom meet for coffee, they occasionally go to the cinema, and rarely going on a night out.

Back in the day when I was a student, I was rarely in two nights in a row!

I don't think it's helped that schools have made mental health such a predominant issue. Both my DC are through secondary now but mental health was talked about endlessly at school in personal development classes, tutor groups and on and on. It's almost as though the incessant talk about it gave them the poor mental health and anxiety.

I got 200 lines once for cracking a (mild!) joke in RE and all the boys who laughed got 100 lines!!!

Yeah I'm always a bit confused by how awful secondary schools are being the main driver, they're a tonne better than they were. Sure, they could be better, but some people talk like they're stricter and more savage than once were- no way!

Yes, it's almost suggestible?

SOME children I know that do this are allowed to do what ever they want and will say whatever they can to get out of doing something.
These days, they know what to say no matter how ridiculous it is.

It seems that the more YP get, the more difficult they find it to thrive?

@Runnerinthenight I've heard a number of very well qualified psychologists, psychotherapists, and psychiatrists (not just wellbeing counsellors) say that dwelling on "mental health" can actually exacerbate negative or anxious thoughts, both of which are absolutely normal and part of being human.

If you constantly ask a child how they are feeling, it's likely they'll turn inwards, according to experts.

I grew up pathologically shy - to the extent I found it very hard to ask for my bus fare or buy something in a shop. But I had to do it anyway. I went to university at 17 - it wasn't always easy (far from it) but I was determined not to let my irrational anxieties stop me living a full & rich life!

And it gets better - we should be telling our young people that life just gets better and better.

I don't think it helps that it's now not uncommon to see people say things like "I have anxiety about starting a new job", not uncommon on MN, too.

You don't have "anxiety about..." you're apprehensive or a little nervous about starting a new job. That's perfectly normal! Most people would/should be!

It's almost like, for a lot of people, it's now totally unacceptable to feel apprehensive and if they do then something needs fixing. The problem then is that situations which can't be 'fixed' overwhelm them as they can't push through the nerves.

That's how I see it anyway and I can only assume social media has a lot of blame here, somehow?

OP, you mentioned that a lot young people are struggling getting older. These has been my experience working in mental health - there are lots of people who are afraid of growing up and transitioning into adulthood. This was different from my generation.

I think the behaviour is worse now though? Very few would have dared to swear at a teacher, and most of us respected the teacher and did as we were told. I've heard on good authority of an incident in a school where a 12 year old female called the head "cuntymccunt face". Where do you go with that?!!

I am absolutely certain all is not lost and we manage to employ awesome people from the current young generation too. It’s only broad-brush generalisations really - which is something the internet is generally rubbish at!

thats another thing actually - online discussions are totally removed from real life. People are fervently ‘one sided’ on most things - nuance, listening and understanding that other opinions might exist almost don’t exist. So many topics are completely polarised so you’re either right or wrong. Also they’re arguments that don’t end.

when that’s the bulk of your social interaction, especially during formative years, it must have an impact. One of those impacts seems to be (slight counter-intuitively) a real world lack of ability to resolve conflicts or disagreements or face challenges. I guess if you can’t ‘win’ online, it’s easier to just back away

Well we're going off topic but the policy of keeping kids in school at all costs is at least partly to blame there.

I'd be amazed if that behaviour didn't result in a long suspension, if not being expelled, back in the 80s.

One thing I'll certainly take away from this is to ask struggling students more about how they coped while they were at school/college - as they clearly attended then or would have failed/got fines etc - ad how they managed to get to University. And try to help them to see that if they could do it then, they can do it now too.

Mmm, not sure I'd assume they were attending. HE students now are of just the right age to have missed a loooooot of attendance from 2020 to 2022. I don't only mean the lockdowns, but even when schools and FE were open, there was a two year period when covid really could be used as an excuse not to attend. You could be symptomatic, a contact, waiting for a test etc. Teenagers aren't daft, some of them worked out they could use that to their advantage, just like adults did. Presumably a lot of them missed some exams too. So their previous attendance and weakening of connection with exam results might be part of the problem here.

On the topic of assessments and extenuating circumstances/accommodations at university..

My year 11 dc who is naturally bright, academic and has loved school throughout primary and KS3 came into the kitchen, very proud to have done a GCSE subject homework that was set today and is due tomorrow. They had to write 2 pages about a subject. Dc's friend said they'd message the teacher and ask for an extension and dc briefly considered doing the same. Dc has nothing else on today so could easily put together a quality 2 page homework.

DH and I have excellent work ethics and are very good and respected in our jobs. I am confused and a bit shocked why on earth dc thought he'd deserve an extension? It's very molly coddled but I did not molly coddle him. Just sharing as I can't relate to this attitude. He also said he has finished that homework now and will take it easy the rest of the being as "it's been a bit much for him".

@YellowAsteroid I think there's a lot in that! It's almost as if having MH issues is the 'norm' and you're outside that norm unless you do too?

I was from the same school of parenting as my mum (without the smacking!) I always encouraged them to push on. My 2nd will still complain of having social anxiety, but a PT retail job where she had to talk to people, really helped her. As did moving away to uni, interning for a year in London which really brought her out of herself, and she is now studying in Europe.