To give a 20 year old a weeknight curfew?

[IndigoHexagon]

Background: my DS (about to turn 20 year old) has been driving for almost a year. He had a diagnosis of adhd and autism at 18. His was delayed socially in some respects but is catching up.

We live in a very rural part of north wales very close to Snowdonia).

Not his problem, and something I have tried very hard not to let affect him, but I struggle with intrusive thoughts and anxiety around his safety (I’m working on this and am heaps better). We have some terrible roads around here so night driving in particular can be a trigger for me. I don’t settle to sleep properly until I know he’s home. This isn’t too much of an issue at weekends or during school holidays but when we all need to be up for 7am, this adds to my anxiety.

he’s recently made a new friend who doesn’t drive and lives 20 miles away(a 40 minute drive on our roads). He shares my car and is spending more and more time driving her back and forth our nearest big town (so a round trip from ours to hers and to the town is 2.5hr driving).

Tonight, he has picked her up and they are now about 25 miles to the other side of the town - deep in Snowdonia. If he turns around now and took her straight home and the came home he wouldn’t get in until 230-3am.

I’m so cross with him. I have a really important meeting in the morning and a long day. He is aware that I don’t really settle until he’s home, although not aware that I barely sleep at all (like I said , my anxiety isn’t his problem).

My DH thinks we should set a midnight curfew for week nights - despite him being an adult. He’s still in full time college (uni deferred until next year) and works weekends, we fully support him and he doesn’t pay keep (my choice, while he’s in full time education).

Would I be unreasonable to set him a curfew given it’s my car, and my sleep that’s being disrupted?

I think you are unreasonable to consider giving an adult a curfew. However, it is not unreasonable to reach an agreement between yourselves from a position of mutual respect, especially since he is using your car. I know you've acknowledged that your anxiety isn't his problem and that is true. I would seriously consider counselling or therapy to help you through this.

Don't be that controlling mother that pushes their grown child away.

I think you are well within your rights when he's driving your car OP.

While I don't think you can reasonably impose (or enforce, really) a curfew on an adult, you say he works weekends but doesn't pay anything towards household expenses.

Does this extend to not contributing to the running of the car? Because if that's the case, I'm fairly confident all those frequent 2.5hrs round trips would stop pretty quickly once he's reaching into his own pocket to put petrol in the car.

It sounds as though the friend is taking advantage a bit, or perhaps just being young and naive and unaware of the costs involved in running a car.

I’ve been in a similar situation. We set an 11 pm curfew Sun - Thurs. It’s your house and your car. His “friend” is using him and will soon find another mug to chauffeur her around.

You can't insist that an adult child is home by a certain time. You can ask them to not be home too late because it disturbs you sleeping and you have to get up early, but not because you are anxious. You can also stop him from using your car, or let him use it less often. However, that won't help going forward, because when he gets his own car you'll just feel the same again. I get how you feel having a son slightly older but really you just have to be quiet about your anxiety and just reiterate how to be safe instead.

I agree with this I think. Yes he's an adult, but he's not an independent adult, as if he were a lodger or unrelated friend. I personally think that if you are funding him, it's fair to ask him to be accommodating and be home for midnight.

This - from experience. And yes, you’ve no idea what they’re doing when they’re at uni but it can be tricky when they’re back home.

OP is well within her rights to insist that HER car is home by midnight - but as her DS will soon buy his own that doesn’t solve the real issue.

We insisted on a quiet return home and absolutely no cooking or turning TV on etc and our DS always stuck to that - but it was rare that he was driving late, he was usually out drinking when he was out past midnight and came home in a taxi so we didn’t have concerns re road safety.

We didn’t curfew though. I would have a talk about considerate behaviour and the risks of late night driving on very dark country roads.

Yes. But only because he lives in your house. If he lived somewhere else, it would not be reasonable but as he lives with you and it's causing anxiety to you, it is reasonable.

You said you are getting help for your intrusive throughts/anxiety. Have you come across the terms "safety behaviour" or "avoidance". Setting a curfew for your adult child would be a safety behaviour and a means of avoidance. Overtime this only reinforces anxiety and would probably negatively impact your relationship with him. As you said your anxiety is your problem not his. I understand all your concerns regarding rural roads and distance but ultimately I don't think you can do this with a adult child (if under 18 I would probably think differently).

I have a 27 yo DD who lives with us (autism and anxiety diagnosis, she’s only just started to catch up socialising wise) and she’s currently learning to drive. I’ll feel exactly the same as you when she eventually does start going off on her own in a car OP. Even though she’s nearly 30.

I totally understand your worry OP , I’m originally from Bangor and I know the Snowdonia area well.

As far as him driving is concerned, you can only reiterate to him to go carefully , however you can’t issue a curfew as such , but as he is using your car then I think it’s fair to ask for a contribution to running costs and see if that suddenly reduces his usage and the “friends” requests for a convenient taxi service .
It sounds as though his new friend might be taking advantage and I’d be more concerned about that .
as he’s not an Independent adult in your home I think house rules should apply anyway , consideration for everyone in the house. So no early hours returns etc

I would be having a conversation about him doing 2.5 hour journey’s in my car on a regular basis to ferry around someone who doesn’t drive. I think it would be reasonable to suggest that the number of times he picks her up and drives her around is limited until he is funding a car of his own and ask him to limit this to weekends only.

Other than that as a mum of one driving teen and a young teen with ASD I do appreciate the anxiety that comes with their new independence. I do sleep now because I realise that awake or not I have no control over anything bad happening. On the roads it’s could be dangerous at 8am or 2am depending on the conditions.

In the US for example “intermediate” drivers (ie those who have passed test within last year) are often in curfew- both restricting night driving and prohibiting passengers. so I think there is obviously seen to be a need for some limits for safety.

you could also look at stats about killed and injured drivers in UK, the stats won’t alleviate your worries, they’ll solidify your resolve to follow your action- www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-older-and-younger-driver-factsheets-2022/reported-road-casualties-in-great-britain-younger-driver-factsheet-2022#:~:text=Overall%2C%20in%202022%2C%20around%20a,drivers%20aged%2025%20or%20over.

Is there a way to get him a car if his own and have a black box fitted for the insurance. These often limit mileage (or you pay extra) and although they don’t enforce a curfew as such my son used “lose” points for driving around after 11pm.

I think you are within your right to ask your ds to be at home at 12:00 during the week. If he lives at home , he needs to be considerate to the rest of the household, he can't have his cake and eat it.It's your car, you don't want theirs of an accident when he driving on bad roads in the middle of the night.

How come he goes to bed so late anyway? Does he not have a job? It sounds a bit wild being up until 3am most nights.

I have an AUDHD 18 year old. I get exactly where you’re coming from. They are not streetwise and are more vulnurable.

But l’d never give her a curfew.

YANBU. He’s not an adult in the sense that he is still living with you and supported by you. Sleep is so important. I have young adults too and totally agree that the worry is worse when they are living with you than hundreds of miles away.
I’d also worry about this girl massively taking advantage ( possibly of a crush on his side?).
Its your car so it’s really up to you when he brings it back.
And I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being open about your worries. Unfounded anxiety is one thing but I don’t think this is totally without reason.
It’s not about being controlling it’s about people living together being considerate of one another.

I feel your pain OP. I went through this all summer when DS (age 19) was back from university.

I was torn - on the one hand, he’s legally an adult, so I felt I had no right to tell him what hours to keep. But on the other hand, he was living in my house, not paying any rent or costs obviously, and my sleep was being disrupted.

In the end I just grumbled a bit, but didn’t actually make any rules as such. He went back to university a couple of weeks ago, and whilst I miss him terribly, I don’t miss lying in bed and wondering what time he’ll be home. Bizarrely I don’t lie awake worrying when he’s away at university.

I don’t think giving him a curfew at 20 is appropriate but I also don’t think people should be regularly coming into the house at 2-3am mid week is appropriate when other people have to be up for work (unless that’s because their job dictates it).
adults who are basically just socialising need to respect that it’s not a reasonable time to be coming home in the week.
so no, I don’t think saying be home by midnight Monday - Thursday is unreasonable.

also does he pay for any fuel in your car or contribute to the insurance cost etc? If not I don’t think you are doing him any favours by not charging a 20 year old anything for his keep.
id also be concerned that this new friend is just using him for transport.

I voted YABU because I do get it, I feel the same about my son who is 18 and always out late driving or just out! But it’s a you problem. It’s not fair to put limits on their activities because of our anxieties.

I think it’s unreasonable because he’s an adult and so far a sensible one by the sounds of it. I think the anxiety you’re feeling is just part and parcel of having independent children who drive

This is not meant as a dig OP, can be difficult to project the right tone in a post, just thought I’d give you my experience of the receiving end of this, if you happen to read this, I was in many ways your son.

Im 42 now and my mum died about a year and a half ago, she was human so lots of positives and many negatives to her personality, but one of the huge ones was her anxiety over me being out and about, not just when I was living with my parents, but even after I moved out at 19, up until she died. I’m actually much more relaxed as a person now I don’t have her neurotic projections onto me, at times they would make me stressed and angry at her.

Mobile phones made it easier for her to check on me, but in a way made it worse. I was once walking my dog and she rang, this was maybe 5 years ago now. I don’t always hear the phone on a windy walk and didn’t this particular morning. The reason she was phoning is because I hadn’t yet phoned her that day and she was worried, this behaviour was annoying to me. She didn’t realise it but she accidentally left a voice message at the end of the call saying to my dad who was with her “well where is he, what’s happened?”, I heard my dad reply that maybe I’m driving for example, to which she said “for fucks sake!”. This anxiety was just suffocating and I had a go at her when I rang back, she stuttered and lied her way out of it, saying it’s fine, but it wasn’t, it was suffocating, it’s one small example of MANY for me, in a huge way I’m just so happy to be free of it.

Just so nobody accuses me of it, I’m not projecting or saying that you are as bad, what I’m saying is your son will at some point share this monkey on your shoulders, if you don’t deal with it, it will continue to consume you and him and possibly taint your relationship. Obviously the best thing he can do is move out, but you do need to find a solution to your thoughts and not ever share them with him or make this his responsibility.

Im not a parent so obviously don’t understand that bond, but being on the receiving end neither does a son, not in the same way you do, they love you immensely, but it’s different. It must be so hard being a parent and worrying for your child, I hope you find a solution and enjoy your future with your family, you have lots of things to look forward to as a family, wish I could go back to being 20 like your son, just sit in my parents kitchen with them having a chat and a drink. But it would be even more wonderful for you to enjoy it without extra worries.

I do understand where you’re coming from as I also worry when my young adult dc are out (neither drives but it’s more the coming home late on public transport/walk from station). Sometimes I sleep and don’t even hear them come in, other times I’m awake worrying and don’t settle until I hear the door - I also get those intrusive thoughts, but I know it’s nonsense from my end.
You can’t give a 20 year old a curfew though, if he lived away (Ie at uni), you would have no idea what he’s up to.

You can't give an adult a curfew because you get anxious but it's fair to say he's disturbing people's sleep coming in late on school nights so he can either get home earlier, stay out til morning or move out.

It lacks consideration for others rather than a curfew exactly

I do get worrying about them, I have adult children, but you need to get it under control. Try having dc in the military on 48 hour standby!