Indian & Chinese heritage kids attaining much higher than UK & U. S kids. Can we learn something?

[Keenrower]

Indian & Chinese heritage kids are achieving much better results & seem to have parents who pour all their resources into making this happen. Are their kids just brighter or are parents more aspirational?
Nigerian & Eastern European kids are also very high achieving.
With the new Labour government I think they are very happy to have all kids meeting expectations but these parents will not accept that & I think we have a lot to learn from them.

I am half Indian. And I would argue that perhaps pursuing educational success no matter the cost should not be admired.

So my parents were LITERALLY obsessed with my sister and I doing well academically. Both parents had 2 jobs, I was often left alone, and there was a lot of pressure in the house. Parents begged for money from family members when they couldn’t cover school fees. And don’t get me started on studying for the 11+.

I am a doctor and sister is a management consultant.

But at what cost? Parents have no friends because they were always working, they now feel isolated and depressed in their retirement. And I have an anxiety disorder due to my dad’s anger.

I mean my kids will want for nothing but my childhood was not far off hell.

This is a fascinating insight. I can see the pros to this attitude although it would be a very unpopular concept here in the U.K! Did you both go to uni in Eastern Europe & Kenya?

Sorry but your daughter didn't do well in the 11 plus. She didn't get a place 🤷 Other kids with innate natural ability do.
I think that sums up the British vs Asian mindset. Not getting a place would be viewed as failure not doing "very well". Brutal truth.

As an Indian, I don’t agree that she would be viewed as a failure amongst my social circles. BUT they would question the parent’s decision not to tutor - purely because they have done their child a disservice knowing full well she has the innate natural ability but is disadvantaged by being up against others who are tutored to their eyeballs. Someone with that level of ability would have needed just a small extra and got the place on their own merit then thrived there. It would be considered as the parent failed the child by not recognising this because the education in the grammar is the holy grail.

Ime the pressure to enter certain professions existed for my parents who migrated here in their childhood. It was not placed on us - we were pushed to achieve academically so options were open but not to enter prestigious professions. We were also given a dose of reality if considering a future in the arts because it is so hard to earn enough to have a good quality of life and we are also held back by our skin colour. Things are a bit better now but, in general, it is still the case.

@sugarapplelane @Keenrower the ‘Asian’ mindset is the average student can become the a above average with a push. @prescribingmum you nail it. ACT/SAT practised from 11years old in some cases, there’s always an overarching plan of attack to hack goals.

That may be extreme but others cut practice papers time in half in run up to 11 plus & CE and kids need to pass these at a decent enough grade for admission. Exam technique honed over time. Real thing a breeze.

GCSE Maths higher level, if not brill at Maths, nail the easier questions at the start & you are on track for a 7. Rinse & repeat with a good tutor. One example yet Brits wedded to ‘natural ability’.

The children of wealthy middle class immigrants have an advantage culturally & with their travel experiences. For example dd is very friendly with a child with a German dad & Chinese mum.
That child is fluent in German & Mandarin through home immersion. Also does Spanish outside school.
Visits family in Germany a few times a year in which they make a point of visiting a different city en route, Cologne, Munich, Frankfurt etc.. The child is also to practice her German.
The family also go China to visit family & also do touristy things. Child practices her Mandarin.

My point is the children of immigrants are more advantage than our middle class kids as they will have their parents native languages & more organic travel opportunities.

But does that advantage make any difference? If you are here to just get the education, then what difference does it make? The point is, that the top level of English society looks very much like it did 50 years ago. Including who gets the jobs. If your aim is just get the education and then make the most internationally then you compare apples and oranges. That is a big difference between someone who comes to the UK and becomes British and a middle class that has been here for generations and has the advantages it wants already. I haven’t seen that change in any serious way at all.

Depends - several of my non-white friends who are 1st gen UK were pushed hard, with no compromise, academically into certain professions - DR, Engineer, Accountant - but I'm not sure it made them any happier or mor well-rounded. At least 3 of the 4 have lamented their lack of hobbies/social life/regret for not choosing areas that they would have been happier in.
But are they successful? Yes, on paper anyway

'My point is the children of immigrants are more advantage than our middle class kids as they will have their parents native languages & more organic travel opportunities'

They also face racism and non acceptance, struggle with cultural differences more ( parents expectation versus culture of the country they live in) and none of my child-of-immigrants friends had any money growing up so... I am one of those but white. Poor, WC parents worked all hours, faced lots of xenophobia & no money for the extra curriculars that MC kids can often afford

There is a post right now in Active by a poster wishing their parents had forced them into banking or medicine instead if an artsy job!

They must have read this thread & it got them thinking 😂

@Lentilweaver @Keenrower what's the link to that post? I can't find it

I don't want to link it but it was in AIBU.

I’m a school governor. I can tell you that is not what ‘most’ get.

It is were I come from. Mostly responsible parents. Where is your school?

It’s a school I volunteer at, not my school. On paper, it’s a very academic and wealthy city. In reality, all cities have pockets of deprivation.

That’s great that’s your experience, family and friendship circle. It’s not like that for all children.

I wonder how much the type of use of screens has to do with it? Positive/structured use such as coding, versus age inappropriate access to apps that spark a low concentration time.

When DC has coding classes the other children in the online group are primarily Asian. In contrast, I do not know other white European kids who do coding. Most of DC's white European friends have smartphones with TikTok, spend time gaming, etc., despite being late Primary. Their Asian and African friends do not seem to have this age inappropriate free screen access.

Exactly this. Why should we strive to be like this?MH numbers are soaring.

If you go into a Starbucks etc in Singapore or elsewhere in Asia you’ll see many school age kids studying at tables. Weekdays & weekends.

I am beginning to see increasing numbers in UK in London & home counties doing the same - is the culture shifting?

In Chinese / Indian heritage kids?

Yes I hear this a lot the 'natural ability' thing.

It's almost ideological in some parents.

For others I think it's pure laziness.

We both went to uni in the UK, having migrated as children.

Across the country as a whole. Pressure and misery doesn't differentiate.

Ok you're suggesting that hard work equates to poor mental health.

You have less than zero evidence for this.

This is exactly the sort of attitude that leads to children not realising their full potential.

God I hope not! I hear about the schedule of my Chinese colleagues - in Beijing - 8 year old has and I could weep for the boy.
I know she’s a living mother but he has before and after school tutors on top of a long school day, has English lessons : times a week on top of that, and is in a state sponsored sports programme that has him training 5/6 days a week.
I think the pressure there can be immense, particularly for only children.