To think that non-binary candidates are more unlikely to be offered a job?

[GinnyPiggie]

I have a non-binary child in their twenties and they are really struggling to secure work.

It might be unfair of me, but I really think that in presenting themselves as non-binary, they are going to struggle to be offered a job with the vast majority of employers. Yes this might be pure discrimination but personally I'd be worried about HR issues and getting sued for saying the wrong thing.

AIBU to think that if you have a range of good candidates, you are going to be reluctant to hire a non-binary candidate because of the potential for issues in the office?

Exactly this….if a person doesn’t know if they’re male or female what else will they have problems in understanding?

I wonder if the ‘bring your whole self to work’ philosophy that’s been kicking about is part of the problem. Young people with limited work experience might think it’s something bigger than it really is so are highlighting their ‘special individual attributes’ thinking that’s what we want to hear about?

I don’t know. Just musing. I had a conversation with a graduate recruit a while back (nice woman, well meant) who was surprised how many middle aged gay people there are here and didn’t realise what a proactive organisation we are (we’re not, we’re just normal)

@DadJoke errr no, they have read the thread - unlike your mansplaining self 😂

As someone who interviews we aren't allowed to see that kind of information on the application form, we see their name, education and qualifications and their answers to the questions, they can download documents to support but we specifically ask that cvs aren't included (we still get a lot of cvs despite us asking that they aren't sent!), so, no, we absolutely wouldn't judge because we can't. And we absolutely wouldn't bring it up at interview and it wouldn't be a consideration in the decision making.

some people need to remember it was perfectly fine to refuse to hire people from ethnically diverse backgrounds, women, disabled people etc, at one point. In fact many employers still try to avoid them by rejecting people with names that don't sound english, or anyone who mentions a disability.

It's sickening. This thread is riddled with discrimination.

Yes they do.

It would put me off. Non binary isn't a thing, it's just the latest band wagon for people with zero confidence to jump on. The phrase didn't exist 50 years ago, and it won't exist 50 years from now. I would expect the candidate to be flaky, picky, awkward, weird.

That said, some employers might bump him up the list, as a ticky box thing.

I wouldn't as I'd interpret it as a declaration that they embraced the extremely outdated and offensive notion of gender norms. I personally wouldn't want to hire anyone who openly identified themselves as sexist, whatever silly titles they chose to award themselves. I'd see it as no different than refusing to hire a man (or woman) who stated that they believed women belonged in the kitchen and not the office - however talented they may be, I'd consider their views too unpleasant to want them in the company. Not least because I'd be concerned about how they might treat their colleagues...

It's not actually discriminatory to pass over candidates with problematic behaviours, no matter how qualified they might be. My opinion is that declaring yourself non binary in an interview is indicative of problematic behaviours and if I were the boss of my own company I'd pass over on that basis alone. Sadly my employer doesn't agree with me on that specific point so I can't.

As others have said I would drop absolutely the pronoun introduction.

It's not going to come up in the interview and it's something that can be dealt with later.

I don't mention my kids in interviews because that will count against me in some situations and I think gender indentity is a similar personal feature that doesn't need to come up at first interview.

Getting the right job, interviewing, selling yourself etc it's hard and it doesn't happen overnight for everyone.

Maybe some volunteering or a short course in the meantime to add to the CV?

I work in a university where significant numbers of staff and students are speaking English as their second, third or even fourth language. People with ASD are also over-represented within acadaemia. Candidates with self-declared issues that complicate communication, or put additional strain on ND individuals in social situations are identifying themselves out of a job. We have no shortage of qualified, experienced applicants who've done their research and interview well.

The only kind of gender reassignment which is recognised in UK law is male to female or female to male.

Depends, might have more chance than a woman. Almost certainly less chance than a man.

But honestly, I’ve never had a need for my gender or pronouns, sexuality, religion or political affiliation to come up in an interview. I’d suggest your DC take the same approach.

OP, it’s not being non-binary that is causing the issue.

It’s thinking that being non-binary is so important, and that getting the pronouns right is so important, that these things need to be announced right at the start of the interview.
The “here are my pronouns” approach doesn’t bode well for their priorities if they were to be hired.

Basically employers are looking for candidates whose priority is to impress the interviewer, rather than making sure their pronouns are correct.

People saying that NB people walk into interviews and announce their pronouns are projecting.
Literally what OP says here child does.

I knew I would immediately hate this thread. It literally costs you nothing to be polite. If you can remember someone's name, you can deal with their pronouns.

this simply isn’t true. It’s not at all like remembering someone’s name.

we had a young non binary person come into my workplace for a day (not a job interview, but in a different capacity) and we were all briefed beforehand about pronouns. It was really stressful interacting with her and showing her around because every time I had to introduce her or speak about her to others I was constantly running a sort of “pre check” on every sentence before speaking to make sure I wasn’t getting it wrong.

using someone’s special pronouns forces one into unnatural speech patterns and so instead of being flowing and automatic any dialogue becomes stilted and fraught. Maybe you get used to it if you spend a lot of time around someone who insists on special pronouns, but it will never quite feel natural I suspect.

we all breathed a sigh of relief once she had left the office.

I would never hire someone who insisted on special pronouns, because the demand creates a tense environment for everyone else.

from your point i can understand but i bet there are many companies that would consider it as a factor, obviously its wrong but im guessing the bias would be there

Most employers will weed out people who are likely to create drama or tensions in an existing team, so I would think it's a definite yes to them being less likely to be offered a job.

Not because they are non-binary, but because they're likely to make it a distracting issue.

Ah, you are right, sorry.

Any company which accepts transgender people will have no problem with that introduction. These are generally large companies, or companies which already employ transgender people.

Other companies might be openly transphobic (as many people here are) or just scared and unfamiliar.

I'm not sure a NB person would want to work for an openly transphobic company, but mentioning your pronouns could easily be mentioned after the job offer, without mentioning it in the interview for the latter companies.

Racist you say? 6% of our employees are south Asian in an English county where it’s hard to find a non white person. 21% are East Asian and I’m not white along with 1% of my mixed race colleagues. 2% are black. Like I said everyone gets along and respects one another.

What I won’t tolerate is people being divisive. Muslim colleagues slipping away to prayer affects no one. Shoving your gender down someone’s throat and having strong political beliefs is divisive and causes upset in the workplace.

@GinnyPiggie

”…traditional industries”

Then she’s taking the wrong approach. As people have testified above, employers choose people who are a good fit for their company. Someone advertising themselves as non-binary, would probably not match a conservative (small ‘c’), traditional company. You get your foot in the door before dying your hair pink etc.

(ps. Must admit, the dad joke made me smile).

There a whole myriad of stupid questions to be answered on applications under the guise of a survey and if the question's don't matter to the candidate process..why ask ?

Firstly, yes they do, and secondly non binary is literally just a personality trait (if that, often it's just a clothing preference) so anyone who chooses to change the pronouns they ask people to use when referring to them is ABSOLUTELY making a choice. Nobody has to call themselves non binary. Absolutely nothing will happen to them if they get called she/he or woman/man.

My DD is looking for apprentice roles at the moment and the job market is ruthless and firms demand a lot from candidates - high grades, lots of experience (even though they are recruiting teens), online tests, then zoom one-way interviews, then team building / role playing exercise and then finally an interview. My DD knows it’s a tough gig at the moment because the job market is not in the candidate’s favour and she is prepared to roll up her sleeves and crack on, despite lots of knock backs. Maybe your DC needs to worry less about their identity and just crack on (this isn’t meant to be hurtful btw but they need to learn that they are up against other candidates who will hit the ground running).