To think that non-binary candidates are more unlikely to be offered a job?

[GinnyPiggie]

I have a non-binary child in their twenties and they are really struggling to secure work.

It might be unfair of me, but I really think that in presenting themselves as non-binary, they are going to struggle to be offered a job with the vast majority of employers. Yes this might be pure discrimination but personally I'd be worried about HR issues and getting sued for saying the wrong thing.

AIBU to think that if you have a range of good candidates, you are going to be reluctant to hire a non-binary candidate because of the potential for issues in the office?

The protected characteristic of gender reassignment does not include people with non binary identities.

And even if it did, in reality there would be no consequences for an employer deciding not to hire someone for this reason.

Um, no.

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/equality/equality-act-2010/your-rights-under-equality-act-2010/gender-reassignment-discrimination#:~

In the Equality Act, gender reassignment means proposing to undergo, undergoing or having undergone a process to reassign your sex.
To be protected from gender reassignment discrimination, you do not need to have undergone any medical treatment or surgery to change from your birth sex to your preferred gender.

This doesn't apply to the OP's child. You're doing the stonewall thing of saying waht you want the law to be, not waht it is.

I have a friend with an absolutely fab company in SW London. Any CVs with pronouns on them go straight in to the bin.

The open discrimination on this thread is repulsive, but not at all surprising.

It reminds me of that old joke about vegans . .

How do you know someone is non-binary?
. . . because they will tell you

I think the first bit is fine but a lot of people just don't get this whole pronouns thing. It would worry me that I could easily offend them by forgetting. They , them doesn't come naturally to a lot of especially older people, to me that's more of a plural.

I think it totally depends where they're applying for jobs. I worked in a college where they would have been given the job on that basis alone.

If I were her (sorry, not using other pronouns) I would complete any application form truthfully (if the business asks the question then I doubt they will discriminate) but I wouldn't mention it on a CV. However, she could put her name and They/Them on the covering email.

My daughter's gf is non-binary and it's quite sad seeing how it's affected the way my daughter speaks, having to think twice before saying anything.

I remember hearing something similar on a leadership training course visit to a fabrication plant, before the CEO showed his colours as a raging misogynist and racist. Low turn over doesn't change whether someone is a terrible employer, they just surround themselves with misogynists and racists because they 'fit with the company culture'.

Gender reassignment, along with race is a protected characteristic. It's illegal to discriminate in either case. You do not need to declare that you are disabled, and you should not be asked. However, some protected characteristics are more obvious than others.

It might depend on the industry…in my line of work it would be far less about the fact they had a gender difference and more important to see how they are in interview ,how they handle questions ….because my biases might be that gender identity issues can be associated with other issues such as neuro diversity,…. I would be inclined to suspect a female calling themselves a male name and presenting as male may well be autistic. I work in a sector where emotional intelligence and people skills are absolutely crucial so it’s really going to depend on whether or not they are a good fit for the job….this would apply to anyone applying ,whatever their identity, disability ,age etc. how is your child generally received by other people, did they do ok socially at school / uni?

I haven’t seen that research. Do you have a link for it?

Agreed. First impressions count. This would signal to me that this person would be a pain in the arse to employ and would cloud my whole interaction throughout the interview.

If they want a job so badly and believe it’s harming their chances why do they feel compelled to announce this irrelevant fact apropos of nothing.

“hi, I’m Sam” is really all that’s needed

i say this as someone who has hired gay disabled and pregnant employees

edit: not all at the same time 🥴

This.

Have they tried approaching interviews without the pronouns bit in their opening statement? The interview should focus on selling a candidate's ability to do the job well, so it can be tactically advisable to pare back anything that doesn't emphasise that.

Maybe they should just introduce themselves as ‘My name is Fred’ and forget the pronoun bit. In fact, I’ve never been introduced to someone, with the pronoun bit tagged onto the introduction.

They’re there to sell themselves to the new employer, and by adding the pronoun, it’s almost challenging. it may work in media, eco-warrior or lgb… community, but in the real world, not so much (and most people don’t know about this modern usage, or care).

What jobs is she applying for?

Turning up in unisex clothing and androgynous looks wouldn't bat an eyelid.

If someones first interaction is to tell you that they identify as they/them, it marks 'twat'

I encourage applications from minorities, first for ethical reasons, but second, because they tend to be hard working and loyal employees, in part because good, accepting employers are thin on the ground.

Any company which avoids employing people with protected characteristics is first of all breaking the law, and secondly, not doing the best for their company.

I suppose I agree with you, to a large extent - i.e. I agree its sad and discriminatory, but I also think it's unsurprising. Having worked with all sorts of grievance processes etc., as an employer I don't know if I could face the potential challenges of someone who was openly non-binary. And I know that's discriminatory right there.

Do you express the same outrage when people with gender critical opinions lose their employment?

I don’t really see why it’s relevant in an interview. No more than saying ‘I’m a women’ in an interview is.

Yes, once you start you tell people what you like to be called and how to refer to you but not at interview.

That being said it is a fairly difficult job market at present so it might not be the reason.

It might just be that their self indulgent approach is a bit tedious. Imagine just turning up to an interview without mentioning what your pronouns are. Or being in the workplace and not going on about it. Nobody who is not ‘non binary’ ever mentions their pronouns or talks about what gender they feel like today. Your daughter needs to just be professional and not make work and the workplace about all this.

Advise them not to go in with the pronoun thing, just introduce herself with "Hi, I'm Neville" or whatever. Most businesses just want people who'll get on with the job with little fuss.

Actually, maybe your daughter's got it right.

If the type of worksplace that isn't interested in preferred pronouns would be a poor fit, maybe starting off with pronouns saves both parties from an uncomfortable working relationship.