To think that non-binary candidates are more unlikely to be offered a job?

[GinnyPiggie]

I have a non-binary child in their twenties and they are really struggling to secure work.

It might be unfair of me, but I really think that in presenting themselves as non-binary, they are going to struggle to be offered a job with the vast majority of employers. Yes this might be pure discrimination but personally I'd be worried about HR issues and getting sued for saying the wrong thing.

AIBU to think that if you have a range of good candidates, you are going to be reluctant to hire a non-binary candidate because of the potential for issues in the office?

This is your opinion.

My opinion is what you consider "transphobia" is often simply female people defending themselves against the sexist belief that if someone is a "woman" it means they have a certain type of mind, as opposed to any type of mind with a female body, against the ideological removal of female protections, rights and language, and against the dishonest erasure of female history and female experience that is required to justify it.

My opinion is that once you think in any depth about the beliefs that underpin cross sex and non binary identities, it is obvious that trans activism is a hotbed of sexism and homophobia and it absolutely should be challenged whereever it rears its nasty, sexist, homophobic head.

Depending on the context that challenge may be robust or gentle - there are a lot of naive and vulnerable people caught up in this after all, and the constant message that everyone hates them and wants them dead that is coming from the people that claim to be on their side is hardly helping them feel safe and secure - but it's never ok to just nod along.

What if you're a mentally ill attention seeker?

Well we have already had non-binary people being compared to minorities.

Well it seems to be a perfectly legitimate way to identify itself. So if your arse thinks it’s an elbow who are we to disagree. Non binary though would be your arse saying it’s neither an arse nor an elbow. Confused, I sure am.

I don’t care about people’s sexual orientation, I totally get that some people strongly feel they were born in the wrong body but non binary is utterly meaningless (imo).

Why be so up front ? I wouldn’t expect anyone to walk in a make a thing out of I’m Ms Smith / Mrs Smith or whatever and as an interviewer I would never make a comment such as Kevin’s an unusual name for a woman , no more than I would say that to a candidate named Lesley / Leslie or Jesse- not very professional.

Frankly if anyone was so upfront it would put a red flag up for me to consider which is they might be hard work and more concerned about their non binary status than actually getting on with colleagues - most people in a professional surrounding are sensitive to individuals gender ID / sexuality without making an issue out of it.

You DC might consider toning down the “up front /in your face” which by some might be read as being confrontational - it may well come out naturally in the IV later. Their focus should be on telling the interviewer why their skill set fits the role.

Rather limited and binary thinking there, DadJoke. Mumsnet vs Everyone Else.

In reality however, Mumsnet is hundreds of thousands of different people with different lives, different experiences & different viewpoints. Most of us are women though.

What is notable however about this conglomerate of mostly women is that we feel free to express what we really think here. If there is any sort of majority or consensus of opinion, you can be reasonably sure it is a reflection of society at large because there is nothing special about those of us who post here. We are just a very, VERY large cross section of average people...

Feminists aren't going anywhere joker.

It's all very "look at meeee". Just come to work, do a great job, be nice to people, then go home and do whatever makes you happy.

Another excellent post. Thank you for articulating this so clearly.

@GinnyPiggie yep, people discriminate. It ‘isn’t allowed’ but of course it happens all the time.

I haven’t been on a panel in many interviews-I think only for 2 job roles- but I saw

one bloke turned down because he was too fat,

one rejected by all but one interviewer on the panel because she was pregnant

and one turned down because she was too old and disabled (it was a desk based job- zero physical aspect- her disability was that she used a mobility scooter, and she was maybe 50)

Add to that the not ‘discrimination’ reasons for rejecting people, like ‘weird’, and ‘shoes are slutty’, and it’s a wonder any bugger ever gets employed!

"Non-binary" is not new, it's a relabelled gender ideology version of the usual androgyny, gender-bender, gender non-conforming behaviour that has existed in several previous generations. Each next generation likes to think that they've invented everything and that no one has ever thought of these things before. This new iteration is actually incredibly regressive and relies on embedding sex based stereotypes so that the category of "non-binary" can exist. Instead of recognising that sex based stereotypes are the tool used to control women in a patriarchal society and so should be wholly rejected. Not used to create a personal and individual identity.

Oh the old 'this is Gay 2.0' fallacy. As gay people themselves have said, trans/NB is nothing remotely like being gay. Gay people didn't advocate people and children amputate organs to fit a sex 'binary', nor did they advocate chemical sterilisation, nor advocate gay men enter female safe single sex spaces. Gay people themselves have asked that the trans/NB social contagions not hijack their struggles.

This. No need to announce your pronouns in interviews - it's a tad egocentric and unnecessary.

It is attitudes like so many of the posters that mean women of child bearing age struggle to get jobs. That menopausal women struggle to get jobs.

Or do you pick and choose who to discriminate against?

Non-binary is just the creation of a new binary - ie binary v non binary.

I thought being gender critical was a protected philosophical belief under the Equality Act? How come I get deleted for saying I do not believe it is possible to be non-binary as there are only 2 sexes, biological male and female?
Sex is binary and immutable. Gender is a social construct.

😆

• The proportion of respondents who said they were not personally prejudiced against transgender people has remained at similar levels, between 82% and 84% since 2016.
• The proportion of women who reported themselves to be comfortable with a transgender woman using women’s public toilet decreased from 72% to 66%.
• There is widespread acceptance of transgender people in roles such as police officers and primary school teachers (84% and 75% of respondents respectively).

www.equalityhumanrights.com/media-centre/news/new-research-reveals-positive-attitudes-towards-transgender-people#:~:text=The%20proportion%20of%20respondents%20who,%25%20and%2084%25%20since%202016.

I refuse unconscious bias training as the research shows it highlights differences and can embed intolerance.

If someone who was clearly female said their name was Kevin ( beyond perhaps checking I heard ) I wouldn't ask why

Because it doesn't matter does it ?

If the same person said I'm Kevin and my pronouns are they/them I would be mentally rolling my eyes

Like others said - you don't announce your religion, sexual orientation, disability like that. It's making a thing of it

I wouldn't want people who make a thing of gender on my staff ( should I have staff!) because it may make others feel uncomfortable, because it shouldn't be relevant to the work , and because i work on a science field and I would find the lack of critical thinking quite off-putting

Hey I'm Kevin and I believe in faith over science isn't a good start

You can educate people just by being yourself and politely answering questions or offering information if it comes up and is relevant to the conversation. Educating people doesn't automatically mean be a total twat standing on a soapbox ranting at a captive uninterested audience

Again, this is not "Gay 2.0". The gay community (LGB) who have long railed against their struggle being hijacked by NB/TQ+ have asked to not be compared. This is nothing even remotely* like the gay struggle. Not even remotely in the same stratosphere.

You would be forced to say 'you're talking out of your elbow' in staff meetings

Nothing. That's the point, I think.

No, they are about MALES.

And feminism is a struggle against......male abuse of women.