To think that non-binary candidates are more unlikely to be offered a job?

[GinnyPiggie]

I have a non-binary child in their twenties and they are really struggling to secure work.

It might be unfair of me, but I really think that in presenting themselves as non-binary, they are going to struggle to be offered a job with the vast majority of employers. Yes this might be pure discrimination but personally I'd be worried about HR issues and getting sued for saying the wrong thing.

AIBU to think that if you have a range of good candidates, you are going to be reluctant to hire a non-binary candidate because of the potential for issues in the office?

Try not to focus on the NB ‘issue’ - obviously depends on the industry they’re applying for, but i work in local government leisure/culture services and have recruited NB applicants and moved into a new department to find more NB colleagues. Complete non-issue for us. I hope that offers some reassurance.

Hopefully your child will grow out of it. There is no such thing as non-binary and most successful grown ups know it.

👏🏻👏🏻

I wouldn't actively employ against the policy, and it's not about office disruption or office difficulties. I will and do actively employ people with disabilities and ethnic and religious minorities and I am more than happy to make the adjustments needed and be flexible at work to accommodate their needs.

However, 'non-binary' is just a load of twaddle and I refuse to see this as a legitimate barrier to being employed in the same way as racism has in the past or disability discrimation.

If you want to call yourself Steve and wear a dress and demand everyone called you 'it' or 'its' then thats up to you. I put this level of self obsession, and wanting everyone to bend to your needs, in the same category as the excessive facial tattooing/piercing then whining about why you can't get a job.

Just grow up.

I work for one such organisation and being non-binary wouldn't put anyone off in the slightest.

I've found some of the replies on here quite shocking, tbh. I clearly live in a vaccuum, I had no idea that these attitudes were so prevalent.

There’s so many unisex names though and names that were traditionally used for males now being used by females.
Our application doesn’t have M or F.
If I invite Sam Jones or Jordan Smith, for interview I don’t know (or care) if they are M or F unless there’s something on application eg high school for girls.
I can’t see how pronouns need mentioning in person in interview. The interviewer will address candidate directly not say he/she/they.
Then when your dc starts they use house style for emails. Pronouns are optional at our workplace, vast majority don’t use them in email signature.

I wouldn’t employ someone who don’t know whether they are coming or going.

I think the advice to say “Hello my name is David” rather than “Hello my name is David and my pronouns are they/them “ is a good idea.

People don’t go round saying “Hello my name is David and I have a husband called Sally” or “Hello my name is Kate Jones but when I marry my fiance then I will be Kate Sullivan” They disclose info like they are gay or engaged after they get the job.

Interview chit chat usually uses “you” and “I” which are gender neutral eg “Tell me about your responsibilities in your current job” and if they start using Miss Surname then she can say “Call me David” which sounds friendly.

I think this is my favourite comment ever 🤣🤣

It’s not unreasonable for people to think non binary doesn’t make any sense. What exactly is it anyway?

A massive red flag the employer and workplace are close-minded, intolerant and likely toxic.

Yeah that's how I feel and what I've taken from this thread @CasaBianca

The info is abundantly available. Try Google. 🤷‍♀️

No one cares about people's identities unless they make their whole lives about that identity. Then they just come across as a potential PITA.

This.

Although I’d tend to think that someone who thinks they can escape being a man or a woman by saying some magic words isn’t exactly a rigorous thinker and so not really employable.

You do realise that the most tolerant people end up falling foul of these rules the most? Because once they agree to them they have to remember to keep up. Particularly around the nonsense of alternating pronouns in each sentence.

Personally I don't need to be NB because I'm already interesting.

Whatever people want it to mean apparently.

Like 'if you've met a non-binary person, you've met one non-binary person'.
They are all different. Ya'know, like people's personalities - except they have to label their personality a 'gender' and then make it really ambiguous for anyone to understand what the fuck they're going on about and make everyone jump through hoops to not accidentally call them what they actually are in reality - a boy/girl/man/woman - because that would be the fucking end of days.

Sorry. I'm increasingly fucked off with it as the years roll by.

Don't apply for a job with me 😆

😆

I regularly meet young people and not one has ever told me their pronouns. My 19 year old niece is at university and says her friends and classmates think it's nonsense.

It reminds me of the saying "Don't know if I'm Arthur or Martha" from the 80s and 90s.

Little did we know back then that the saying would eventually take on a new mean decades later.

What's so fucking wrong with just saying your male or female???

Seriously - this planet nowadays.

Don't disclose your pronouns and no one will know you are NB.

Well the NBs definitely have an advantage there!

If only it was possible not to disclose being female unless you are with a known non-sexist company.

Weirdly, no matter what the pronouns, clothes or name, somehow society still seems to work out who to discriminate against on the basis of sex pretty much 100% accurately. It's a mystery indeed - how do they still know?

Mumsnet, for all its good qualities, is hotbed of transphobia, It sometimes leaks out from the so-called feminism: sex and gender forum onto topics where people are seeking help and advice for LGBT+ issues.

Usually I ignore it, but it's difficult when they are accusing non-binary and transgender people of being mentally ill attention seekers.

Yes, one can google all kinds of cults and made up rubbish.

Sub-conscious bias (or even conscious bias) is a real thing. Statistically men are more likely to be given a job, even if a female candidate is more experienced. Men are perceived as more capable and better hires. Homosexuals, and those thought to be homosexuals are less likely to be given a job, as are disabled people, regardless of whether the disability is directly related to whether they can do the job or not because disabled people are considered "less than" and more likely to take sick days (when the reality is actually the opposite). Non-binary people are perceived as difficult and hardwork. And don't even get me started on racial bias.

So yeah. It's likely a contributing factor.