To think that non-binary candidates are more unlikely to be offered a job?

[GinnyPiggie]

I have a non-binary child in their twenties and they are really struggling to secure work.

It might be unfair of me, but I really think that in presenting themselves as non-binary, they are going to struggle to be offered a job with the vast majority of employers. Yes this might be pure discrimination but personally I'd be worried about HR issues and getting sued for saying the wrong thing.

AIBU to think that if you have a range of good candidates, you are going to be reluctant to hire a non-binary candidate because of the potential for issues in the office?

The vast majority of people on here are saying they would actively hire against a diversity policy if they thought it would be disruptive, cause office difficulties etc.

Accepts female (that took years and maturity), uses a male name but the pronoun miss. Wants her own children and has a male boyfriend. I don't get it but that's non confirming as says.

I'm sorry but your daughter is just a straight woman appropriating the gay scene.

It's offensive

I have hired candidates and I don't give a crap about identity or what not. I only care about can they do the job and will they fit in with the team.
Unfortunately, I've interviewed a few vocal believers of gender identity, some of whom started with "my pronouns are .../...". In that instance I knew they would not be a good fit for the team.
Same way I knew someone would not be suitable with a ACAB tattoo on their face (two of my team are ex police).

Can you not see what a load of regressive nonsense (to put it politely) this is?

What are these typical masculine and feminine behaviours of which you speak? Masculine = leader, assertive, aggressive, dynamic, go getter, outspoken, technical, numerate, strong? Feminine = submissive, quiet, diligent, well-behaved, peace maker, good with people, head tilt and tinkly laugh?

How many of us conform to those?

FFS the 50's called and want their stereotypes back!

My DC are from a minority group and have foreign names.. You notice I am not making that an excuse however. Employers are doing anything to cut numbers down, as pp said.

Honestly OP, MN is probably not the right forum to be asking about anything trans- or gender identity related. So many transphobics on here.

She should probably stop doing this. It screams drama and navel gazing. Sorry, but hiring people and managing people is tough enough. Your daughter is welcome to call herself whatever she likes, but expecting a prospective employer to subscribe to her chosen "identity" is a massive red flag.

It's a huge mental burden to have to disbelieve the evidence in front of you that says MAN and actively say the opposite by using "preferred pronouns". It's telling a lie every single time. It's particularly hard for people with autism - but as we've seen many times the accommodation only goes one way when there's gender ideology involved.

At my org making a big deal out of an NB identity might help you get the job. It’s a very right-on org.

I personally don’t believe NB is anything other than an attention-seeking affectation so I’d probably be a little put off a candidate identifying this way as it would suggest to me they might cause drama. I would do my best not to let it affect my judgement of their abilities though. And in any case these decisions are always made by a panel where I work, and I would be vastly in the minority in that view.

Do you think OP only wanted advice from people in the same echo chamber as you?

I think you have misunderstood.
The people who have said they wouldn't hire are not doing so out of discrimination against the protected characteristic. The thing that they are wanting to avoid is the "introducing irrelevant detail"/"not being able to read the room"/"bringing political attitudes into a workplace scenario where they don't belong" which can be inferred.

If an interview candidate walks into the room and declares "Hi my name is Geoff and Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour" and you don't employ them, it's not because you are discriminating against Christians.

At my org making a big deal out of an NB identity might help you get the job. It’s a very right-on org.

Mmm there are definitely some organisations where this is the case. So really, OPs DD has two options. Either stop with the pronouns, or target the organisations where it'll be helpful.

@Kizmette i don't disagree with you.

My daughter is a women and was brainwashed online nearly a decade ago. .I suspect like quite a few 20+ non gender confirming people.
My BFF is gay and that was tough enough in the 1980s when we first met. I am trying to help the OP not put my view across.
The bigots I refer to are people who make snap judgements, I was not calling anyone on here that descriptive. My daughter is also black and disabled. There's a lot going on for her.

Or, rather we are realists who don't buy into a femphobic, misogynistic ideology and are not brainwashed and living in the 1950s, @Amista77 . Ever consider that maybe, just maybe you are the one that is narrow-minded, phobic and in the wrong?

If people don't think this thread is reflective of the real world they are kidding themselves.

However I do agree that there are some particular orgs/sectors where it would be seen as positive for hitting diversity target reasons. Perhaps the OP's daughter should focus on those types of places?

You mean like all those trans and NB indentfying people that literally define their entire existence based on how they assume other people feel, and have literally got the law changed on that basis so that a woman is not just a person who has a female body, but can now also be a person who has a bit of paper to say they feel like they assume female people feel?

Yes I agree, it is utterly astounding.

What a load of codswallop. I suppose you have blue hair too.

How can you have gender affirming surgery if you're non binary?

I suspect it's not the fact of being non-binary, but the drama of telling people as if it's relevant or interesting.
It's fine for things in your private life to be super important to you. But no need to bring it to work. It just shows a lack of understanding about how to behave in a workplace generally.

We hired a guy who once in place insisted on every Labour (political) event nationally he had to attend as a trade unionist. When he ran out of holidays he'd throw a sickie. We eventually sacked him when he beat up the manager in front of me. He was such a powder keg. Three months later he was arrested for GBH on someone else who upset him and got three years.

Well you will never get an NB person who doesn’t constantly tell people about being NB.

It’s an identity that requires an audience to exist. The only thing that differentiates the vast majority of NB people from anyone else is their pronouns. So NB people need to keep telling people their pronouns or they won’t be NB.

The place my dd previously worked v recently was all ' bring your authentic self to work'. And many workplaces seem to encourage people to add pronouns to an email signature.

This is how my company touts themselves but in reality we all roll our eyes and ignore emails suggesting we put our pronouns in our emails.

As a big corp the bigwigs are trying to pay lip service to the trendy nonsense, but they're not doing the recruitment, that's down to us on the ground. And most of us know enough now to know that most people of gender are at best silly navel gazing children, and at worst a complete nightmare who are going to be an HR and dynamics headache.

Of course we don't outright say we're not offering them the job because they've put they/them on their CV though.

It's astounding that people spend so much time arguing what another person should be, feel or identify as.

Startling. I might get this printed on a t-shirt.

Unless there are unusual circumstances (niche position where it would be a potential benefit, business trying to prove their woke creds, etc), I'd expect it might put the average employer off when an applicant makes it clear that they are... unusual, whether they communicate that through how they choose to dress/present themselves, announcing their pronouns, or in any other way.

I'd personally avoid a candidate who seemed likely to inject unnecessary drama into the workplace, just as I am selective about other people allowed into my life.

Your child won't be losing job opportunities because they are non-binary.

Your child might be losing job opportunities because they are presenting it in applications.

Most people don't care (even if they do have contrary opinions on relative current events) about working with someone non-binary.

A large proportion of people can't be arsed dealing with difficult employee's - and if someone is presenting this on their CV and/or at interview, its likely to at least appear, as if they could be difficult in the workplace.

The fact is, no one really cares what others do in their private lives. It's when it can impact work, that they care. Being non-binary tends to become such an intrinsic identity to a lot of non-binary people, that, seeing as it has become their identity, it's impossible for it to not be brought to work. By that I don't mean simple requesting certain pronouns, a fairly easily catered for request (albeit a bit of a pain for those who don't subscribe to these views), most will be quite happy to try.

Then again, my experience working with a non-binary person was very easy in that respect. I did my best, occasionally made a slip up, apologised once, and although it happened afterwards too, never needed to apologise - the person made it clear they appreciated, and could see that I was trying, it can be difficult, and the odd slip is fine. If they had made a huge drama out of it, it'd be another story, and my patience would wear thin extremely quickly - and it's not something I have the time or inclination to deal with. Lucky then that I'm not in charge of hiring.

Sorry OP, I find it all a load of silly nonsense, as do many others - I'm voicing this only because its relevant, and you asked. I wouldn't offer this unsolicited - Whilst those like me still try to be accepting and outwardly respectful whilst holding these quiet opinions, a lot of us just can't be bothered with it. The only one that really cares is the person identifying as non-binary.

I wouldn't not interview or hire someone because of gender identity etc. I would probably not hire them if they appeared very full on about it, and I imagine my team would thank me for it. Same if someone made a big fuss about anything else rather private, actually.

If they're putting stuff about it on their C.V or in interviews other than 'my pronouns are x, y or z', tell them to stop.