To think that non-binary candidates are more unlikely to be offered a job?

[GinnyPiggie]

I have a non-binary child in their twenties and they are really struggling to secure work.

It might be unfair of me, but I really think that in presenting themselves as non-binary, they are going to struggle to be offered a job with the vast majority of employers. Yes this might be pure discrimination but personally I'd be worried about HR issues and getting sued for saying the wrong thing.

AIBU to think that if you have a range of good candidates, you are going to be reluctant to hire a non-binary candidate because of the potential for issues in the office?

Employers don't want to be treading on eggshells and don't want to upset thier existing team by introducing pronouns, gendered loos etc.

The job market is competitive at the moment, if another canditate is just as good, why invite drama?

I think more women could do with identifying as a default male in the workplace and having ridiculous amounts of confidence while being totally average and getting paid more for the same job.

Exactly.

It’s like the article I read once written by this man (as in, born male) who realised that he was a female in school and so started identifying as such. Then realised he was attracted to women, and so called himself a lesbian female. And then decided he liked dressing as a masculine man. So called himself a masc-presenting lesbian female.

Sooo… a man then.

That you do not believe exists.

Non-binary people exist, whether you agree with it or not. OP's child is one of them.

This will be my final answer, because I don't want to be drawn into a bad-faith derailment. Genuinely, how do questions about one person's individual preferences in language and the intra-community quibbles of terminology relate to the OP?

There seems to be a common misconception here that nonbinary people believe themselves to be literally, physically sexless. This is, in every case I've ever met including my own personal experience, patently untrue. I am nonbinary and I prefer to go by they/them, but my gender identity does not negate the fact that I am biologically female. If you looked at my chromosomes, they would not have magically changed from "XX" when I legally changed my name, nor when I had a double-mastectomy, nor whenever I tick the 'nonbinary' box on a form.

Therefore, I am both nonbinary and a lesbian. I have a complicated relationship to the terminology and which words I prefer to use, but that's the facts of it. Sometimes things in life are contradictory and conflicting, and that is absolutely fine! I do not feel a need to square every circle when it comes to nebulous concepts like gender identity and how it intersects with the language of sexuality, in part because it doesn't matter and in part because language is always evolving.

This is not an uncommon position to be in. Nonbinary people still have a sex, and there is no rule that we cannot use terminology that refers to that reality and our own experiences with it. In fact, the only people I've ever encountered to have a problem with this in real life are neither lesbians nor other nonbinary and transgender people.

You haven't met the majority of the terf population then, most are lesbians.

It's true, a female who is exclusively attracted to other females is a lesbian regardless of the views any of the parties hold on gender.

TLDR - I'm not like other lesbians?

How can you possibly be non binary, and a female lesbian? Contradictory nonsense.

Exactly. You can't say you're female and non-binary. One or the other but not both. Talk about cake and eating it. If I was interviewing you I'd roll my eyes at the lack of critical thinking skills. Oh, and I'm a lesbian for whatever that's worth. Just an ordinary old-fashioned sort of lesbian.

If you can’t describe or define what it is how can you say it exists?

The NB poster on this thread still hasn’t managed to explain what NB means, despite calling themselves it. Just that they’re a biological female who is attracted to other females so is therefore a lesbian and has modified their body to remove their breasts. Still none the wiser.

A NB person is someone who does not identify exclusively as male or female- they might identify as both, neither, or a combination of the two.

Took me about 10 seconds to google.

You know, this is a very good point, and why using 'pronouns' only ever hurts females. Not males. As here in the examples, although it's regarding names not really pronouns, a man and a woman at work swapped names. The female was taken more seriously using a male name.

Nothing in this ideology benefits women and girls (females) at all. Nothing. It's a Meninist ideology reflecting the sexism and misogyny of the ages.
www.vox.com/first-person/2017/3/17/14950296/sexism-name-switch-tweets

Rejecting everyone with pronouns on their CV (whatever those pronouns happen to be) or if they introduce themself as "I'm John and I use he/him pronouns" is not illegal discrimination.

If you introduced yourself "I'm Mark and I think Black Lives Matter", "I'm Jane and I'm a lesbian", "I'm Noah and my shoes are size 9", or "I'm Sharon and I'm vegan" you would also be met with a raised eyebrow because none of those things have any relevance to the interview so why would you say them? Having done so right at the start indicates that you make absolutely everything revolve around your identity.

A 'non binary' female means a gender non-conforming female in old money.

Out of interest, what could employers do in your opinion that would help demonstrate a supportive environment for their staff? paternity leave? leave when you adopt a child? How about time off for funerals of people who aren't blood related but are your chosen family? I'm not sure why you are coming across as being so aggressive as nothing in my post said that employers have to offer a diverse and welcoming environment for their staff just that i would look for one who does. Not because I necessarily need most of the flexibility being white and straight, but because companies who are considerate of their employees and foster an environment of inclusiveness, are more likely to pay me well, let me take time off when needed and understand that life gets in the way sometimes and we all need a little bit of support.

How can you possibly be non binary, and a female lesbian? Contradictory nonsense.

I don't think there's any contradiction in that at all because it's three separate things. Female is sex - completely factual biology . Lesbian is sexual orientation f-f - again completely factual. NB is 'gender identity' - cultural, subjective and not dependent on the other two factors.

Some trans and NB-identifying people do seem to get confused between these different things but I'm a bit disappointed to see others doing so.

@GinnyPiggie I think the only way forward for "Kevin" is just to be authentic to who they are. "Kevin" doesn't need to change, everyone else does. The generations to come are less hostile to non-conformists.

There seems to be a common misconception here that nonbinary people believe themselves to be literally, physically sexless. This is, in every case I've ever met including my own personal experience, patently untrue. I am nonbinary and I prefer to go by they/them, but my gender identity does not negate the fact that I am biologically female. If you looked at my chromosomes, they would not have magically changed from "XX" when I legally changed my name, nor when I had a double-mastectomy, nor whenever I tick the 'nonbinary' box on a form.

Well, blow me down with a feather. Who knew that humans can't change sex?
(We all do, even the Ts which is why they're so angry)

I guess the questions is what's happened to you, or what's going on in your thoughts or neurologically to make you hate your amazing female body so much that you'd mutilate it so badly. So many butch lesbians going down your route. It's tragic.

There is literally no such thing as 'non-binary' as a distinction, because we are ALL non-binary. I don't know of one person on this entire earth (ok, admittedly it may be technically possible) that is 100% binary. No one ascribes the 100% stereotypes of their sex. Unless (female) you're a handmaiden or (male) you're a caveman. No one is 100% binary. Everyone is a type of 'non-binary'.

And also, males who have Schizophrenia and believe they are the second coming of Jesus 'exist' too. It doesn't mean they are actually Jesus or their 'belief' is valid.

I assume this was sarcasm. Kevin is a total conformist to the new religion and to gender stereotypes. Kevin and a suit with trousers sounds like conforming to me.

If this in regards to LinkedIn, I know it's not mandatory to put in pronouns, but I once logged in and it stated that my profile was incomplete and for me to fill in my pronouns with some small hyperlink to say "I'll do it Later" or "Ignore".

That's why I said they tricked people into doing, because they made it look quite mandatory.

And the hate continues...
It's astounding that people spend so much time arguing what another person should be, feel or identify as. 🤦‍♀️

I'd be concerned about receiving any CV which declared someone's protected characteristic, or someone who declared it in an interview (unless it was pertinent to the role or asking for RAs). Same as it would be inappropriate to ask an interviewee about this. Leave it out of the hiring process unless it is pertinent to the role (e.g. you are applying for a role with sex-specific exemption, or a religious role etc)

Yeah. I’m not in UK, but our government has this as a mandatory field for job applications - they must be done online where you fill in the fields and attach a cv. So noone’s putting that bullshit in their CV’s, the government demands it. Was the case a few years ago when DH was going for government jobs and has not changed as one of my kids went for a government job recently (different tier of government, as we have Federal, State and local), and it’s still there as a mandatory field. The way they seem to get around it is, that they require the information to ‘best support you in the process and at work’. How the fuck that works in reality I have no idea but it’s all box ticking.

Exactly the same as where I currently work. Says it’s not mandatory on applications (again info collected online, and cv’s attached) but babbles on about how we are gender diverse friendly and supportive and we collect that information to ‘best support you’. I have been told on the side (one of those conversations that don’t happen), we are running short of lesbians and too keep it in mind when employing. Seems they are aiming for every colour of the gender rainbow to promote themselves in those ‘workplace of choice’ wank awards, and believe their rainbow is going to be deficient as we are missing lesbians. Apparently like unicorns these days.